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BBP Investigator
Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 527 Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: AIVD Puzzle  Let's Get Cracking! 


UPDATED FOR ERRATA: look for italics
It's time for the nefarious AIVDpuzzle.
The AIVD is the Dutch CIA. In 2012 they started publishing their puzzles. They became famous when the Dutch prime minister admitted defeat on the 2014 puzzle.
As you can imagine the puzzles are in Dutch, and since I had at least one person responding to one of the easier (though it took me hours) puzzles last year, here is, for your pleasure, the Tolkieninspired puzzle:
#29: Raymond Merrill Smullyan (19192017)
Of the 13 dwarfs that accompany Bilbo on his jorurney, one or more have gotten under the influence of Sauron. Dwarfs under the influence of Sauron always lie, the others speak the truth (if they speak at all)
Which of the dwarfs tells the truth and which lie?
Bifur, Bofur and Bombur Gandalf called Bifur, Bofur and Bombur to him. One of the three stole a ring. Gandalf knows that the thief always lies, the other two will always tell the truth. He asks each of the three dwarfs: "Are you the thief?" Bombur is the only one to respond: "Either Bofur is the thief or it's me!"
Dori and Nori Gandalf called Dori and Nori to him, and asks if they know where Bilbo is. Dori replies he knows nothing. All Nori says is that both Dori and him are the same type (as in: that they either both lie or both tell the truth.)
Oin, Gloin and Ori Gandalf was looking for Bilbo and called Oin, Gloin and Ori to him, knowing that one of them knows where Bilbo is and that two of them are liars. Oin confessed that he knew where Bilbo was, and Gloin said he didn't know. When Ori answered whether or not Oin knows where Bilbo is, Gandalf knew who's lying and who's telling the truth. Gandalf couldn't hear Ori's answer.
Balin and Dwalin Elrond had his suspicions on Balin and Dwalin. He asked them "Do you both tell the truth?" He couldn't tell anything from Balin's answer (which was yes or no).
Beorn asked "Are you both liars? He couldn't tell anything from Balin's answer, which was yes or no.
Bard asked Balin: "Is it true that you tell the truth and Dwalin lies?" Bard couldn't learn anything from his answer.
Gandalf read this and knew of both Balin and Dwalin whether they lie or not.
Thorin, Kili and Fili The Arc Stone was stolen from Thorin's chambers. Bilbo, Kili and Fili were in these rooms and Thorin accuses them of theft.
Gandalf's research shows that if Bilbo was guilty, he would have had an accomplice.
He also finds that Kili and Fili are both either guilty or innocent. Gandalf knows that if there are two guilty dwarves, Bilbo is one of them. Fili and Kili both say Bilbo stole the Arc Stone.
The Mordor Spy Gandalf's problems aren't over yet. He now has to find out which of the dwarves spies for Mordor. With the knowledge who lies and who tells the truth, he can use clever questions to exclude dwarves from his research. The spy is one of the remaining dwarves of which Gandalf doesn't yet know whether they lie or not.
These dwarves are lined up next to each other in alphabetical order. The first dwarf says the last one in the row lies, but the secondtolast one tells the truth.
The second dwarf says he's innocent.
The secondtolast dwarf says the last dwarf lies. The last dwarf says he's guilty.
Last edited by BBP on Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total 

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blutype Suspect
Joined: 03 Jan 2018 Posts: 9

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: 


I'm aware of the kind of puzzles you've highlighted (above being an example) but I'm uninterested in anything related to Tolkien.
And I tend to be unable to solve complex puzzles anyway.
I can do basic Sudoku (but that gets boring soon after starting).
I can't do crosswords unless they're very easy (I imagine).
I know cryptic crosswords are a thing but I haven't tried one.
There are some people who are very adept at doing tricky crosswords (etc) in newspapers. 

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BBP Investigator
Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 527 Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:47 pm Post subject: 


How about another one: and remember these questions are often about things that happened in the past year. Haven't solved it yet but the question # does hint towards one direction...
Question 007
Make pairs of:
W5, S4, B7, J4, B2
and
M1, B2, I6, S8, T2.
What does W stand for? 

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BBP Investigator
Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 527 Location: Netherlands

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject: 


There's one that's been causing quite a stir, and it's board game based:
Karel is in Amsterdam. Where exactly is Henk?
Henk 4 5 10 7 6 6 2 4 5 7 8 4 3 3 3 9 10 6 5 5
Karel 6 7 8 7 9 8 2 12 10 5 5
The puzzle initially confused quite a few people. Now that the entry time has passed but it'll be a month before the publication of the solution, it's comparing notes  and that turns into an interesting puzzle.
Amsterdam is the dark blue city on the Dutch monopoly board. The guys are playing Monopoly.
Taking all the Monopoly rules into account, like the question mark squares and the three double jail rule, it's still hard enough to calculate where the guy would be! 

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BBP Investigator
Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 527 Location: Netherlands

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: 


In case anyone bothered to do these:
#29: Knights and Knaves with LOTR
BBB: There is one liar, he's also the thief. If Bombur is the thief, he would also be speaking the truth, but that's not possible. So Bombur and Bifur speak the truth, Bofur lies and is the thief.
DN: If Nori lies, Dori would be different from him and a truthteller. If Nori speaks the truth, Dori would be just like him and a truthteller. Dori speaks the truth. Nori is still unknown.
OGO: One knows where Bilbo is and two are liars. If Oin's confession would be true, Gloin would also speak truth, and that's not possible. Oin lies. We don't know whether Gloin and Ori speak the truth, but we know only one of them is a liar.
BD: Elrond can't learn anything from the answer given. Had the answer been no, Balin would speak the truth and Dwalin would be lying. The answer to his question was yes: either they both speak the truth, or Balin is lying.
Beorn couldn't learn anything from his answer. Had the answer been yes, he would know Balin was lying and Dwalin speaks the truth, meaning the answer was no. By consequence, either they are both liars or Balin speaks the truth.
Combining these two data: either they both speak the truth, or they're both lying.
Bard couldn't learn anything from his answer. Had the answer been no, Bard would've known that they both speak the truth. So the answer was yes: either Dwalin lies and Balin speaks the truth, or Balin lies. Since they are both the same, they must both be liars.
TKF: Of note: Bilbo is not a dwarf, we need not know whether he lies or not.
If Bilbo was guilty, he must have had one accomplice, which couldn't have been Fili or Kili since they're either both guilty or both innocent. So Bilbo is innocent, Fili and Kili are lying But they are also both innocent since if there are 2 culprits one of them is Bilbo. So Thorin was the thief and lying. Fili and Kili are lying.
*I don't agree entirely with this explanation, since if Thorin was joining in on the party he might as well have teamed up with Bilbo meaning Fili and Kili were speaking the truth, but since I found the last question only works with 3 dwarfs, I took this option and was lucky enough to be right.
Mordor spy: We need Gloin, Nori and Ori.
Gloin says Ori lies but Nori speaks truth
Nori says he is innocent and Ori lies
Ori confesses.
If Gloin lies, Ori's confession would be truth but Nori would be guilty too, and that's not possible. So Gloin speaks truth, Nori speaks truth and Ori lies. Gloin is the spy, yet he speaks truth. 

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BBP Investigator
Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 527 Location: Netherlands

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: 


#007:
The letters are all initials of Roger Moore characters. If you take the letter corresponding to the number behind the name (like S4 is for Simon (Templar), the 4th letter is O) the letters spell Roger Moore. W stands for Wilfred (Ivanhoe).
#Board Game Based:
This one was a bit cruel. I mentioned it was boardgame based but the puzzle solvers didn't even have that information, they were just to assume that from the numbers between 2 and 12. Karel is in Amsterdam  the dark blue street on the Dutch Monopoly.
The question caused quite a stir: the puzzle makers overlooked the options that people could end up in jail by triple roll, or could end up at a different place with Chance cards etc. At the main forum on the AIVD puzzle, there was a hilarious discussion on where Henk could be. At least 5 different possible locations were found.
Eventually AIVD decided they made a mistake and issued the 4 points to anyone who correctly guessed it referred to Monopoly. 

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