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CLUE "Silver Line" Edition
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is weird ... Does toysrus really have an eBay page? And if so ... Why?

Here's the Clue Silver edition game on eBay for $29 buy it now, and free shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172784144044
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weird, but not entirely surprising. eBay has changed a LOT since its early life as a DIY auction site. Though why Toys R Us would maintain an eBay shop and their own online shop is beyond me. Maybe that's how they clear up space in their warehouse(s)? Which also doesn't quite work, since this is a new item & not marked down at all.

On an unrelated note (inspired by clicking through the links on that page), I can't believe other sellers are trying to get upwards of $20 for that awful 2013 Clue game (especially when most Walmart stores have the perfectly good new edition for $Cool. I know out of print editions of games are always overpriced on the secondhand market, but that thing will never possibly be considered collectible. /rant
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
cacums wrote:
alwaysPeacock wrote:
Thought: when Cluedo got revamped in the '90s, Waddingtons started using grey plastic figures of the suspects which slotted into colored bases. In theory, couldn't Hasbro have made a nicer game at a reasonable price if they'd taken a similar approach with this edition? Cast the new suspect figures in the same silver/grey plastic (fitting for a so-called "silver line" edition), and have them slot into translucent/shimmery plastic bases of the appropriate colors. Boom, a game suddenly more worthy of a $30 price tag, without the added expense of metal/multicolored playing pieces, and utilizing something Hasbro already has at their disposal (the character molds).

Yeah, it's not as inexpensive as the route Hasbro took with reviving the ? figures. But it's better.


I always loved the '90s Cluedo and Passport to Murder specifically for their pieces.

I'd love to see the Super Cluedo Challenge busts come back into play. Maybe if they do a 1949 game with the iOS art. (fingers crossed)


The busts would be very cool to see in a game, again! For a classic styled special edition, those would make a nice change from all the wooden pawns, and might even justify whatever mark-up would adorn the price tag.


I was thinking about the busts from the SC game, and I'd like to see those in pewter or faux marble plastic, with colored pedestals. I don't like how they're a solid color, as some of them just look creepy. In that respect, they'd be similar to the Geoffrey Parker tokens, which may actually be my favorites of all time. Miniature pewter busts would be a close second if they didn't supplant the Parker tokens as #1 for me.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welp. I bought it. Came into a bit of silly spending money, and decided why not?

Just remember: I bit this bullet so the rest of you don't have to. You're welcome. Wink

So, overall, I'd give this a 2.5 -- 3 star rating, out of 5.

The box art is still the highlight of this edition, though the back side of the box is painfully plain. However, it does answer questions about the weapons cards: they've been redone with the gray, cloudy background & updated pictures of the "deluxe" weapons.



Opening the box, we get a black & silver version of the rules booklet. The layout is identical to the North American Clue game, with suspect profiles on the back. I will say, it looks very good in greyscale, and the profiles are easier to read without the "leather book cover" effect in the standard blue version. For some reason, this rules booklet has been sewn together, instead of stapled.



It's hard to photograph, but the board feels sturdier/thicker than the board included in the standard sets, and the back side has a nicer finish. Not flat like the US/Ca edition, and not as sharply textured as the International edition, but a nice middle-ground. “Cardboard pretending to be leather” would be a fair description.

The board is SHINY. This is not a game to play beneath a bright overhead lamp. Unfortunately, and this may be a defect in only some copies, the artwork is not centered properly. This creates a thick border at one end of the board, and almost no border at the other end. Mine also has an odd scuff on the border, outside the Lounge.

EDIT: I've realized it's not that the board wasn't aligned properly, it's that the artwork wasn't trimmed properly before being stuck to the backing.



The tray: a serviceable, unremarkable tray holds the playing pieces. One deep opening holds the drawstring pouch, weapons, dice, and tokens. A narrow opening holds the detective notebooks, with a slot underneath for the cards, with the solution envelope just resting between them. The invitations (more on those below) have no designated spot, and just rest on top of everything else.

EDIT: Actually, the invitations fit perfectly over/under the notebooks. Mine were just dislodged somewhere between packing and being opened.



My suspicions about the cards were correct: no foil accents, just a silver printed border with white lines to suggest a silver shimmer. I haven't opened them yet to see what kind of paper they're printed on, but I'm not optimistic (see below, the envelope and invitations).

As I'd suspected (ha), the suspect tokens are made with a shimmering plastic. In person, they're slightly less offensive than the 2011 tokens, perhaps because the base colors of each piece aren't as lollipop bright as their previous incarnation. Muted, shimmery. Acceptable, but not ideal. The weapons feel appropriately hefty, though I can't really tell what they're made of. The black dice with a red magnifying glass is an improvement over the white/pink combo in the standard game. The drawstring pouch to hold the pieces isn't very attractive, but it's all this edition has to keep the pieces from rattling too much in the cavernous storage tray.



Where this edition truly fails as a “deluxe” game is the paper components. The solution envelope is PAPER, not the card stock of the standard edition. The set of detective's notebooks feels slim, and the paper lacks the smoother quality of the standard game. It does look very good in black, however. The biggest disappointment is the set of invitations, meant to be used as small clipboards for the note sheets. They're THIN. It seems they've been printed on the card stock typically reserved for a box insert, or for the standard Clue's solution envelope. They're nowhere near as sturdy as they should be, for their purpose, and I can't see them providing much support when taking notes. It should also be pointed out the included clips are identical to the 50th Anniversary edition's, with a slot at the top for a golf pencil, yet this edition couldn't be f ked to include even a set of generic golf pencils.



I knew this wasn't going to be a great “deluxe” edition, but I really expected better than this. When a special edition has cheaper components than the standard version of the game...something is wrong. The lack of quality control (board alignment), and the shoddy paper components make this a slap in the face to any real deluxe products Parker/Waddingtons has produced in the past.

Would this make a young board game player go “Ooh, ahh”? Yes, probably. But only the most dedicated & compltetist collectors should even bother picking up this edition.

I just hope this isn't IT for 2017 Clue(do) games. Target has already released their line of gift editions for the year (this year they're not nostalgic, they're “rustic” and feature distressed wodden boxes & playing pieces), and Clue is totally absent from their lineup.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, more lack of details unearthed upon opening the cards.



See what's wrong? The card images have been lifted from the 50th Anniversary edition. So the revolver and lead pipe tokens don't match their cards at all. The publicity photos all showed off the Master Detective style weapons, but if you zoom in on the box back photo I posted above, it's the 50th Anniversary set on display. Did the person in charge of "designing" this really think nobody would notice the two very different guns??

Also, one of my bonus cards has a weird smudge on it. Not sure if it's an error in printing, or if something dripped on it in China (where this whole thing was made, according to the box).

There's only 40 sheets on the detective notepad, and only the board seems to have a parts number on it (stamped into the back). Methinks Hasbro never intended any kind of longevity out of this "deluxe" game. Heck, even in 2002 I was still able to request replacement parts for the 50th anniversary game (from 1999). I've a feeling any inquiries about getting spare parts for this one would be met with a long winded "Meh, sorry, but nah."
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Just ... Wow.

I'm stunned at the weapons cards. What's the design on the back of them? Monochrome mansion like the regular game? Maybe they designed the game intending to use the 50th Anniversary components, when they realized they didn't have the original 50th tokens? Or somebody just sent the wrong molds to the manufacturer? It's really shocking.

Otherwise, the game is pretty much what I was expecting. I'm sad to be wrong about the reflective card frames. How sad that Monopoly board must be then ...

From my perspective, the reason to get it would be the silver weapons tokens for the unique lead pipe, and revolver, which have only ever been issued in bronze.

The booklet makes sense with a stitched binding if it was made in China ... The Chinese Cluedo game also has a stitched binding. Much nicer than staples.

I'm not surprised about the the rest, really, but the invitations not being sturdier cardboard, also makes no sense whatsoever. I mean it's such a stupid move that it's hard to believe it's not a mistake -- the Chinese manufacturer thought they were just supposed to be invitations and printed them on card stock instead of cardboard.

Well thanks for sharing. Sorry it didn't turn out better ...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't realize I cropped the card backs out when I snapped the photo. Yes, it's the mansion, similar to the standard game, but very, VERY darkly printed. More a suggestion of the house instead of a sharp, clear image. Fortunately, the magnifying glass on the bonus cards is very clear, so it's not possible to confuse one type for the other.

The weapon tokens are a definite plus to this edition. The standard issue set is a bit stale after 45 years, but they must only cost pennies to mass produce, so I'm not surprised Parker/Waddingtons/Hasbro never bothered redesigning them. Even though this isn't an original design, it's nice to get something different.

I do have to give them some credit for the board, though. Inconsistent cutting aside, it's significantly thicker than the standard edition board. There's even some shadows added to the borders of the rooms. The overall effect, despite the shimmer of the paper it's printed on, is a darker house. More suitable to the theme than the very bright board of the standard game.

Really, the aesthetics of this version aren't very bad when the whole thing is set up (some moody, indirect lighting helps as well). The façade crumbles, though, when you're like me & start looking at everything up close. I'm sure most of the people who buy/are gifted these Silver Line editions will be thoroughly pleased.

But yeah, those invitations...if those had been of better quality, I could overlook some of the other shortcomings, but... they're SO cheap. Side by side, they hardly look thicker than the cards. I am about 70% certain it wouldn't be too difficult to crease one in the course of a game. Grab it too hastily, jab too hard with a pen...

Regarding the slim, paper solution envelope: Clue(do) used simple paper envelopes for decades, so I'm actually not sure why its presence is troubling here. Perhaps simply knowing the standard game now uses a heartier version than the deluxe edition is what makes it such a sore point.

One thing I hadn't realized until perusing this edition: without the box insert briefly setting up the scene of the crime, the Clue game offers very little in backstory beyond the suspect profiles & invitations to Boddy's birthday & reopening of the house. The longer Cluedo rules booklet, with the front matter replicating much of the insert's scene setting material, would have benefitted this edition, which of course doesn't use the insert.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:

The weapon tokens are a definite plus to this edition. The standard issue set is a bit stale after 45 years, but they must only cost pennies to mass produce, so I'm not surprised Parker/Waddingtons/Hasbro never bothered redesigning them. Even though this isn't an original design, it's nice to get something different.

I do have to give them some credit for the board, though. Inconsistent cutting aside, it's significantly thicker than the standard edition board. There's even some shadows added to the borders of the rooms. The overall effect, despite the shimmer of the paper it's printed on, is a darker house. More suitable to the theme than the very bright board of the standard game.
...
But yeah, those invitations...if those had been of better quality, I could overlook some of the other shortcomings, but... they're SO cheap. Side by side, they hardly look thicker than the cards. I am about 70% certain it wouldn't be too difficult to crease one in the course of a game. Grab it too hastily, jab too hard with a pen...

Regarding the slim, paper solution envelope: Clue(do) used simple paper envelopes for decades, so I'm actually not sure why its presence is troubling here. Perhaps simply knowing the standard game now uses a heartier version than the deluxe edition is what makes it such a sore point.

One thing I hadn't realized until perusing this edition: without the box insert briefly setting up the scene of the crime, the Clue game offers very little in backstory beyond the suspect profiles & invitations to Boddy's birthday & reopening of the house. The longer Cluedo rules booklet, with the front matter replicating much of the insert's scene setting material, would have benefitted this edition, which of course doesn't use the insert.


The worst part about this game for me is that the cards don't match the weapons tokens. That's the kind of detail that would make my teeth hurt every time I held the Revolver card. I suppose in our case, we could just dig out the 50th Anniversary tokens, but for $30, that shouldn't be necessary.

One thing to consider about the weapons -- Hasbro doesn't really want to redesign them, nor should they -- they're trademarks, and I think after deviating from them with DTS somebody probably realized that. We've seen nicer, heavier, variants in various editions, but overall, they're sticking to the exact same designs. And that's probably a good thing for the brand (not so much for collectors). I wouldn't be surprised if they went back to these MD designs because there's also some ability to trademark them as the "deluxe" set. Especially since the poison is now clearly established as their go to supplemental weapon.

What's odd about the Invitation notepad holders is as you pointed out they don't bother to include the pencils. Again, I can't help going back to the fact that this game costs $30, and other than a redesigned color scheme and some nicer weapons tokens, there's not a lot here more than the regular game. How much could 6 black golf pencils have cost them, and made for a complete "deluxe" gaming experience?

I'm not sure what solution envelope you got with your Cluedo game, but the one I got in mine is much cheaper than the US edition. It's basically paper. So I wonder too, if that's not the difference between this game being manufactured in China, versus your Cluedo game which was made in Ireland, as is your Clue edition?

So another question about the board -- what parts of it are actually foil? Is it just the dividing lines between the moving spaces, or is it the outlines of all the rooms, etc? Once you confirmed the card frames are not actually reflective foil, it's not at all clear just what is ...

And finally -- if the rules booklet is just a monochrome version of the US manual, do they add any kind of mention of the poison? Or is the customer left to figure out that one for themselves. I realize that there's nothing on the box, other than an over-sized poison bottle token to indicate there's even a special weapon added to this game, optional or otherwise -- which you'd think would be a selling point. I also noted on the box that the digital mock-ups persist with the weapons tokens all appearing to be equal-sized, not reflecting the correct relative sizes -- the candlestick being the most obviously misrepresented.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murder by Death wrote:
I'm not sure what solution envelope you got with your Cluedo game, but the one I got in mine is much cheaper than the US edition. It's basically paper. So I wonder too, if that's not the difference between this game being manufactured in China, versus your Cluedo game which was made in Ireland, as is your Clue edition?

So another question about the board -- what parts of it are actually foil? Is it just the dividing lines between the moving spaces, or is it the outlines of all the rooms, etc? Once you confirmed the card frames are not actually reflective foil, it's not at all clear just what is ...

And finally -- if the rules booklet is just a monochrome version of the US manual, do they add any kind of mention of the poison? Or is the customer left to figure out that one for themselves. I realize that there's nothing on the box, other than an over-sized poison bottle token to indicate there's even a special weapon added to this game, optional or otherwise -- which you'd think would be a selling point. I also noted on the box that the digital mock-ups persist with the weapons tokens all appearing to be equal-sized, not reflecting the correct relative sizes -- the candlestick being the most obviously misrepresented.


Actually, my Clue was made in the US, with the dice & weapons made in China. That being said, my Cluedo has the nicer solution envelope. The Clue envelope is black cardstock, open at the bottom of the question mark. The Cluedo envelope is white cardstock, printed in black, with a semi glossy finish, and open at the top of the question mark. So, perhaps that is one piece that varies depending on where a particular set was printed. Glad I'm not a hyper collector, because all these different manufacturing locations would drain the bank.

The board is 100% foil/something similar. Imagine the Clue FX box, printed entirely in that foil-paper stuff, but thinner & mounted to the black backing. The only parts not shiny are the black labels for the room names. The black boxes have a matte finish with silver, foil lettering. I'll try to get some photos to show just how reflective the whole thing is.

The rules book is 99% the standard version. The list of contents on the cover has been updated, and step 7 under "Set it Up" rewritten to incorporate the invitations. The poison is never highlighted as a new feature.

It just occurred to me, though, that the inclusion of the poison messes with the 2 player rules. Normally, after dealing 4 cards around the board, each player/team is dealt the remaining 14 cards evenly, for hands of 7 cards each. Now there's 15 cards left to deal. I suppose a 5th card could be dealt around the board, or simply left face up at the start of the game, but the rules haven't been edited to account for the increased number of cards.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:

The rules book is 99% the standard version. The list of contents on the cover has been updated, and step 7 under "Set it Up" rewritten to incorporate the invitations. The poison is never highlighted as a new feature.

It just occurred to me, though, that the inclusion of the poison messes with the 2 player rules. Normally, after dealing 4 cards around the board, each player/team is dealt the remaining 14 cards evenly, for hands of 7 cards each. Now there's 15 cards left to deal. I suppose a 5th card could be dealt around the board, or simply left face up at the start of the game, but the rules haven't been edited to account for the increased number of cards.


So, the poison is NOT listed as an OPTIONAL weapon during setup? In other words, unlike the 50th Anniversary game, or the LGE, any new players to the game are simply instructed to use 7 weapons?

That's really strange. I suppose any experienced player can choose to discard the poison, or any one other weapon for that matter to restore it to standard game play with 6 weapons. It just seems strange that Hasbro is otherwise including the poison as part of the standard gameplay. And as I said before, without calling attention to it, the only real distinction between the Silver Line Edition and the standard edition for $18 less, is the monochromatic color scheme.

It also occurs to me that the old, cheap playing pieces of this game will stand out from the even older, cheaper, standard North American edition pawns. This makes me think there will be no international Silver edition of Cluedo, as this may have been the plan all along for the North American version of Clue -- and that's why the nicer figurines found in the Cluedo edition were not included. It also gives them somewhere to go in the future in terms of another "deluxe" North American edition.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about the LGE, but the 50th never mentions the poison as an optional component. The back of the tin alludes ta a special anniversary weapon, and in the rules/list of playing pieces it's the "special Anniversary Edition Bottle of Poison." It goes on, under Setup, to say "Place each of the Weapons in a different Room. Select any 7 of the 9 Rooms." It's even established in the narrative of "Francis Waddington" at the beginning of the rules book (I never appreciated how clever that name was, back when I first got this game, and now I'm wondering if the date on his letter, October 14, 1949, is significant to the date Clue/Cluedo hit store shelves).

So for the 50th Anniversary and Silver Line editions, there are 7 weapons, full stop. One could certainly choose to not use the poison, but the intention seems to be for it to be a default part of the mystery. It's easier to ignore in the 50th, as it's the last listed weapon on the note sheet, but in the Silver Line edition it's smack dab in the middle of the weapons list. Bit messier to cross that row out for a game.

I don't know why Hasbro doesn't just retire the lead pipe & bump the poison up to full time status, iconography be damned. They've already done one shake up with Dr. Orchid, and have done even more with Monopoly tokens in recent years (it could be argued those are even more iconic than any Clue weapons, except perhaps the candlestick). If Dr. Orchid is a long term/permanent addition, the next redesign (probably another 5-6 years) would almost need a new weapon to drum up some interest. They wouldn't have to use that awful medicine bottle from the DTS version, but could easily cast the MD/50th version in a smaller size to keep it cheap.

And make the rope a metal token, too. It's dumb that only one of the weapon tokens makes any attempt at realism. No need to use the bigger version, just use whatever Winning Moves used for their Classic edition. /rant
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
I don't know about the LGE, but the 50th never mentions the poison as an optional component. The back of the tin alludes ta a special anniversary weapon, and in the rules/list of playing pieces it's the "special Anniversary Edition Bottle of Poison." It goes on, under Setup, to say "Place each of the Weapons in a different Room. Select any 7 of the 9 Rooms." It's even established in the narrative of "Francis Waddington" at the beginning of the rules book (I never appreciated how clever that name was, back when I first got this game, and now I'm wondering if the date on his letter, October 14, 1949, is significant to the date Clue/Cluedo hit store shelves).

...

don't know why Hasbro doesn't just retire the lead pipe & bump the poison up to full time status, iconography be damned. They've already done one shake up with Dr. Orchid, and have done even more with Monopoly tokens in recent years (it could be argued those are even more iconic than any Clue weapons, except perhaps the candlestick). If Dr. Orchid is a long term/permanent addition, the next redesign (probably another 5-6 years) would almost need a new weapon to drum up some interest. They wouldn't have to use that awful medicine bottle from the DTS version, but could easily cast the MD/50th version in a smaller size to keep it cheap.

And make the rope a metal token, too. It's dumb that only one of the weapon tokens makes any attempt at realism. No need to use the bigger version, just use whatever Winning Moves used for their Classic edition. /rant



The LGE tin does more than "allude" to a special anniversary weapon -- it trumpets the fact it containes a special one of a kind poison weapon token and card.

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/94976/clue-limited-gift-edition?size=original

I'll have to check the LGE rules booklet, but I'm pretty sure it has instructions on playing without the poison. I must have assumed the 50th edition likewise had the same info in the rules. Or perhaps I made the whole thing up.

Nevertheless they make a point of highlighting the inclusion of the poison -- explicitly in the LGE game, and as a seventh Anniversary weapon in he 50th. The Silver Line game depicts it, but says nothing about it being a special, non-standard addition.

I think you're right that the date mentioned in the 50th Anniversary game, might be a specific reference to the day the game was first sold commercially. It may or may not reference the Wdeingtons game, or the Parker game, considering what we know about the apparent race to get the game into stores once know to Parker.

I would agree the weapons present a perfect opportunity for a Monopoly-like publicity campaign for the game -- as we've discussed before, it's a much better option than presenting characters in such a contest. I think the lead pipe is the obvious candidate since lead is outlawed in most countries, and most people don't come into contact with such things anymore.

I disagree about the rope in the sense that the weapons otherwise do effectively represent their real counterparts --

Revolver -- metal/silver is a common color
Candlestick -- metal/silver is a common color
Dagger -- metal/silver is a common color
Wrench -- metal/silver is the most common color
LeadPipe -- metal/silver is the color

Rope would rarely be silver, nor metal. A wire would be. A cable would be. But that's not what it's called. Maybe if it's a decorative curtain tie back, it would be silver, but that's not how it's ever been presented (perhaps a mistake). So I accept that it's an effort to at least match the color of a common rope. I've always hated that it was plastic, and would welcome the metal token, which might prevent it from getting lost or broken. They could even make it gold tone in the standard set to give it the approximate color, if not the actual material -- though nylon rope is probably the most common found in any home now such that plastic is the most accurate depiction of the real thing.

I was the most excited when I first discovered Cluedo -- there you had a pistol painted black -- the most common color -- and looked like the real thing. A real rope (which is kind of a bad idea for many reasons, but very realistic), and a dagger with a black painted handle. What I'd like to see is a return to that -- I'd like to see a gold tone rope and candlestick, a dagger and revolver with coated handles to match wood and leather, and wrench and lead pipe as they are. Or, a new weapon with applicable realistic details. At least in a deluxe edition if not the regular version. The poison bottle could be a metal weight coated in translucent plastic shaped like a poison bottle.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point about the original Cluedo weapons. I'd forgotten how much I like those. A return to something like that, with painted elements, would be nice. Modern Hasbro will never do it, but it's nice to imagine.

Regarding the realism of the weapons coloring/materials: I don't know that realism was ever a consideration in the basic design of the game. Considering the early, more abstract versions of Cluedo, I always interpreted the design as an actual floorplan of the house, and we players are detectives attempting to recreate the scene of the crime with representations of the suspects & weapons, collating our collected evidence (the cards) until someone cracks the case. So it makes sense for the pieces to be more representational than highly detailed/literal. This is assuming we are detectives in a world where this kind of investigation happens often enough to have a set of miniature weapons in storage, so some suspension of disbelief is a useful tool.

In that regard, it's almost more acceptable for Clue to keep using abstract pawns in lieu of sculpted figures. One could argue (very weakly) that pawns are more true to the spirit of the original game (even though we all know it's just a cost cutting maneuver, and figures are way cooler from a collector's perspective).

Newer editions (and nearly every version of Clue) don't entirely fit that interpretation, and definitely lend themselves more to the concept of taking on the identity of a suspect & playing at being amateur sleuths.

Either way, we don't begrudge any of the deluxe games for using metal for all the weapons, so I see no reason a standard edition couldn't also go that route. A miniature, metal noose/coil of rope would, after all, be more durable than a thin, plastic piece. I have a Brazilian edition that came with all the weapons in silver/gray plastic, all on a runner when it was new. They look fine, being uniform, though I'd definitely prefer an all metal set over an all plastic set.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:

Regarding the realism of the weapons coloring/materials: I don't know that realism was ever a consideration in the basic design of the game. Considering the early, more abstract versions of Cluedo, I always interpreted the design as an actual floorplan of the house, and we players are detectives attempting to recreate the scene of the crime with representations of the suspects & weapons, collating our collected evidence (the cards) until someone cracks the case. So it makes sense for the pieces to be more representational than highly detailed/literal. This is assuming we are detectives in a world where this kind of investigation happens often enough to have a set of miniature weapons in storage, so some suspension of disbelief is a useful tool.


I'm not sure I follow this -- the original Cluedo weapons tokens are arguably the most detailed and accurate of any of the weapons sets matching the card photos of the real weapons almost exactly.

http://www.theartofmurder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3956

So not abstract at all, and not just a generic set of miniature weapons pulled out of a detective's storage room. In contrast, the pawns are more abstract as representatives of the decidedly surreal suspect cards -- I.e. Heads piked onto a matching pawn, the shape also matching the representative pawns exactly, thereby establishing a strong relationship between them. And then finally the floor plan board, with exactly matching cards, but clearly representative of the mansion and not an actual depiction of it as with most later editions.

I suppose one could say that the photos of the weapons are also generic photos pulled out of the detective's storage room which match the miniature weapons, and they just select the six involved in the case. But thats not usually the way it works. The Suspect cards I think establish this in the detective investigation analogy -- one could interpret the suspect cards, as real photos of the suspects, taped onto color coded cards that match the generic pawns. And then the room cards serve their purpose perfectly in your detective scenario. But the weapons cards then would also be crime scene photos, and that's where this concept begins to fail in that the detective's have gone out of their way to painstakingly craft exacting miniatures to match the real weapons. Later versions of Cluedo, I'd totally agree. By the time they got to the gold tone weapons of the 80s, the weapons had little relation to the card images.

But I'm still not sure I glean your point. Even in later boards which one could pretend is a representation of the real thing with their detailed room designs and first person photos on the cards, the weapons are still oversized for the rooms, as are the suspect tokens. So the game has never been a plausible representation to pretend is the real thing like a Clue dollhouse game might be. But in making the game so highly detailed, including sculpted tokens, and detailed weapons, it's a lot easier to "play house", so to speak, than with the original board which required a lot more Imagination to put yourself into the rooms.

Then again, in 1949, I think the British had a much greater degree of imagination to immerse themselves into a mansion based on nothing more than a floor plan. Just looking at the original Patent, it's clear that Pratt likely mean for the players to use the game as a guide to immerse players into the world through their rich imaginations, having grown up in a generation that had only books and radio for home entertainment, and had to fill in the visuals on their own. Remember that Cluedo was based on Murder! -- a game in which the players literally became the characters in their games -- acting them out in their own homes. Add to that, the weapons are about the only thing that Pratt depicts in great detail on the patent, though he alludes to future editions depicting rooms and suspects/tokens in more detail as well. He even goes so far as to suggest short generic tokens (as were the economic reality of the time) represent women and the tall ones men! So I think the intention was always to emerse oneself into the game, and role play in character. And in post war England, the effort to craft those tokens in such detail was the one area Waddingtons seemed to agree with Pratt about -- something to help make the game more real for the players. Somewhere along the way someone created the suspect art (and I'd still like to know the name of that artist), which further helped connect the players to the roles they were playing as well as literally visualize the heads of the suspects on the matching tokens. Indeed the original rules state that the player selects the wooden token nearest to them and "is that person". Again, this was a big deal in post war England. The board was expensive in of itself due to size and I can only imagine they assumed their customers would use their rich imaginations to fill in the blanks, and the representation was enough, rather than create expensive-to-reproduce room designs.

It was Parker Bros. who evidently first turned Clue into a detective game by linking it directly to Sherlock Holmes and first using the "The Great New Detective Game" slogan. None of the early Waddingtons games mention "Detective" at all, except in respect to the "Detective Notes" (including quotes) in the rules, and I suppose the magnifying glass and fingerprint on the logo alludes to it. Ironically, Parker was not content to use the abstract floor plans, and first created the detailed cards and rooms, thereby creating a sort of set of crime scene photos, but also a more immersive game board which plays more into the idea that Waddingtons may have been more of a role playing game as Pratt intended, than detectives solving a crime back at the station. Parkers original weapons also matched the cards exactly, though they were less detailed, and by 1950 had begun to change significantly with little regard for matching the cards anymore, despite giving us the plastic rope. But Waddingtons persisted with the exception of the candlestick into the 60s.

I actually like the detective's-solving-a-crime approach, but so far I don't think there's been a really good effort to make that game, though I agree the original Cluedo game with its sparse layout comes close, even though I don't think that was the intent.

Regardless, mainly due to trademark concerns, the standard set of weapons now match the cards almost exactly. However one plays the game, I totally agree the tokens should all be durable, and I'm all for the rope being metal. All I'm saying is that if the goal is to make the weapons tokens match the real item as closely as possible, there are ways to do that using metal. But frankly, I'd be just as happy to see the rope go. Maybe because it was always the cheap plastic token, or maybe because I couldn't imagine how anyone would be able to realistically kill someone with it. Maybe they could replace both the lead pipe and rope in your proposed contest.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
.
I just hope this isn't IT for 2017 Clue(do) games. Target has already released their line of gift editions for the year (this year they're not nostalgic, they're “rustic” and feature distressed wodden boxes & playing pieces), and Clue is totally absent from their lineup.


This can't be it for Clue at Target. I did a search on their website and the only Clue game is the 1986 nostalgia reissue. They don't even have the regular edition, or Junior. But Monopoly has 10 different games in stores!

https://www.target.com/p/monopoly-rustic-series-board-game/-/A-52118130#lnk=sametab

I'm not sure How they'd do a rustic Clue, or why you'd want it. This just seems like a silly theme, and makes no sense. Is this "rustic" thing some kind of trend? If so I haven't really seen it anywhere else.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murder by Death wrote:

I'm not sure I follow this -- the original Cluedo weapons tokens are arguably the most detailed and accurate of any of the weapons sets matching the card photos of the real weapons almost exactly.

http://www.theartofmurder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3956


Arguably, the dagger is the exception. The card handle looks like one of those German scouting hunting knives, and the handle on the piece has this diamond shaped engraving that looks like they are suggesting it was jeweled.
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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murder by Death wrote:
alwaysPeacock wrote:
.
I just hope this isn't IT for 2017 Clue(do) games. Target has already released their line of gift editions for the year (this year they're not nostalgic, they're “rustic” and feature distressed wodden boxes & playing pieces), and Clue is totally absent from their lineup.


This can't be it for Clue at Target. I did a search on their website and the only Clue game is the 1986 nostalgia reissue. They don't even have the regular edition, or Junior. But Monopoly has 10 different games in stores!

https://www.target.com/p/monopoly-rustic-series-board-game/-/A-52118130#lnk=sametab

I'm not sure How they'd do a rustic Clue, or why you'd want it. This just seems like a silly theme, and makes no sense. Is this "rustic" thing some kind of trend? If so I haven't really seen it anywhere else.


I think it's just for the sake of doing something different. They've done nostalgia & wooden book-box editions for so long, they had to come up with something to spark any interest. I could see the hipster types snagging these "rustic" editions to keep in their tiny houses. I could maybe see the rustic aesthetic playing nicely with the 1972 edition, but I imagine there's some rights issues with the models which have prevented that set from being reproduced so far.

I know all my local Target stores have the new standard edition and '86 retro edition in stock. The only place I've seen the new junior edition in person is at Toys R Us, which is also keeping the Star Wars edition in stock.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the Clue LGE instructions about the Poison token. I mistakenly thought this was the same in the 50th Anniversary Edition.



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, nifty. I'd never considered cutting any one of the seven weapons offered. I would assume the obvious choice would be to play with or without the poison/chalice, as it's the one non standard item. But given the option to cut any weapon would leave the classic 6-6-9 ratios intact, and relieve some of the drudgery of half the weapons being bludgeoning instruments.

Obviously one doesn't need it spelled out in an instruction book to play this way (same with the "official" two-player rules, as people have been playing it with only two players from the beginning), but it's nice the designers of this edition thought about it when putting the game together. Unlike Hasbro's clearly not thought through attempt with the Silver Line edition...

Now I kind of want a special edition with 9 of everything, and an option in the rules to play with all the suspected persons/weapons, or to remove any 3 suspects & 3 weapons to play a standard game.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:

Now I kind of want a special edition with 9 of everything, and an option in the rules to play with all the suspected persons/weapons, or to remove any 3 suspects & 3 weapons to play a standard game.


I think it could be handled like this:




White can be one space closer to the first door, since two dice, sort of eliminate the advantage of a single space or two. Peacock has a one space advantage over everybody else already, so giving White one shouldn't be a big deal either ... age before beauty and all ... add an additional space next to Green, and as long as the side hallway door is still missing, it's 6 spaces to the Study as well. Who knows, maybe that's why they removed the side Hall door, in preparation for adding another starting space.

But here's the problem, the LGE gave some very specific instructions for optional play ... The 50th Anniversary edition didn't. Whiie any of us would know to play by removing certain cards, and tokens, and crossing them off our detective notes., those casual gamers are probably not going to realize they could remove components, especially when there are starting spots on the board for the characters and tokens, and thus it ends up being an expansion game, whether we'd play it that way or not. So chances are, if we get this kind of game, it'll be some kind of deluxe edition mean to be played 9/9/9 as was DTS, or MD & Super Cluedo. I think we can all assume White will be one of the new characters, and with the Marmalade game expansion, maybe Hasbro will pick the other two from the most popular downloads.
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