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Cluedo introduce new character and kill off a classic!!!!!
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOOD NEWS!

Looks like we found it in OZ. Went to a new Kmart after Christmas
and that's all they had -- they did not have the old version. I have to wonder
if Hasbro was trying to clean house before Christmas, and is restocking with
the new version after Boxing Day?

Anyway, it appears to be the same as the UK version. Bought it for $25 AU,
which works out to be around $18 US.

When I get a chance I'll post some pictures from it.

Edit: there are some interesting differences between the Clue and Cluedo
editions -- more than the Dr. Black, Mr. Boddy change.

Edit: actually, looking back on it ... This post from Black back in October should
have confirmed it was available in Australia, as this is an Australian TV Advertisement!!

http://www.theartofmurder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=127221&sid=90644b506ad82aebbe3dc8bb46318a4c#127221

http://youtu.be/vqmbo9qqaOg




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll post a full selection of pics later, but for now I'll start with the basics:

Miss Scarlett -- the detail is a bit soft, but all things considered, much nicer
than the cheap pawns with the US set. I'd love to see these in pewter.



And of course the Box continues on in the tradition of higher quality Cluedo construction,
starting with the plastic storage tray, to the sturdy box, board, and playing cards.
Of course that's why the Cludeo version is double the price of the US edition.
Maybe we discussed this, but why is REVEREND GREEN still described as
"The Playboy"
-- this seems to be a HUGE error. They changed the name and artwork,
but left the totally inappropriate description.



And of course the plastic tray is perfectly designed so that the detective notepad lays on top without
sliding around.



And what's up with the Cluedo edition having 50 CARDS!?
The North American version only has 30 cards.
What exactly are they? 20 duplicates of the 9 US Clue cards?

EDIT: Turns out there are 29 unique "Clue" cards ... The
North American
edition is getting cheated out of 20 unique cards, not duplicates -- 20 completely
different cards. WTF!?




And of course it's a 12 page booklet with its own unique artwork to
account for the regional variances -- NOTICE the twine stitching up the spine,
where the Clue version has two staples:




I'll be curious to see the differences in the rules between the Cluedo and Clue editions.
While page 3 & 4 above are generic, meaning no references to specific versions of the game, the next
three pages contain references to both Cluedo and a totally unnecessary reference to Reverend Green.
Note the instruction to remove the 29 "clue" cards, for a standard game on page 6.



Note the totally unnecessary reference to Reverend Green in the example on page 7 -- they could
have used any character, yet they chose one who had to be changed in the instructions.
By doing so, they turn a page which could have survived without any changes into one which needs one.
I guess as long as they were re-doing the whole booklet, they might as well use specifics.



While I respect they've made an effort to explain why REVEREND Green is labeled a playboy,
that's still the completely wrong term here -- especially for a character posing as REVEREND
throughout is game. It works fine for MISTER Green, but makes little sense here.
At best he's a "player", but more accurately a con-man. It's really the one place they get
this edition completely wrong. Actually it makes no sense for MISTER Green either since his
character bio states he's posing as a REVEREND. So even if he is a "playboy" in his native personality,
he's posing as clergy, and thus exhibits no traits of being a playboy, but is demonstrating
all the traits of a con-man. Is this a British vs. American distinction I'm missing?



And a blank back page that shows of the faux leather treatment. Now that's a luxury
compared to the US edition.



Of course the board is re-branded Cluedo -- the artwork even on this stairway carpeting
is just gorgeous:



And the last major change, the Rev Green starting space, along with a sample room -
The Ballroom. I'm really going to have to scan these in hopes of getting better contrast
of the images. Sadly the moodiness of the artwork obscures the details in the dark shadows,
that the photos can't accommodate.




That's it for now. Anyone who wants to see anything else, please let me know and I'll upload it by priority.
Otherwise, I'll post the rest later.



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cacums wrote:

The Dining Room and Kitchen are both sooo close. But the darn
wine bottle and shoe don't fit the proportions of the rest of the house. I'm sure they were
enlarged to make it more apparent, but actual size would have been better. Detail is detail
after all. The Kitchen and Dining Room are otherwise colored and laid out perfectly.
I can overlook the bottle and the shoe simply due to the grandness of the Dining Room.



Here's the solution to the dining room -- the wine bottle is a Magnum of wine,
Perfectly suitable for serving a large dinner party, and makes an excellent weapon.

Not to sure what to say about the shoe. There's no rational explanation for it, as it
Appears to be a size 24 based on stool size and floor tiles. I might just paint over it
as well.






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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to see how the non-US rules book is designed. I knew it was somewhat different from a glimpse I got in Instagram, but WOW. Those suspect profiles are much easier to read than the small white lettering against the blue "leather" back cover. I still really, REALLY wish the design "language" of the rules book had carried into the cards & notebooks, too.

Would love to see the rest of the Clue cards & suspect figures, when you've time to take pictures/scan them. I'm surprised there's meant to be 29 of them (awkward sort of number), but not too surprised the US edition got skimmed down to 9. It fits with Clue's status as a budget game (compared to Monopoly, Life, and Risk, it's produced more like the newest Sorry, Trouble, and Yahtzee) & the whole "made in the USA" crap Hasbro's been pushing in recent years (b/c "made in the USA" really just means "cheap junk" when it comes to toys, games, and Ford vehicles).

One wonders why Hasbro US even bothered keeping the Clue cards? Surely standard dice in lieu of the custom dice and printing/packing 9 less cards would have been cheaper.

Now I really need to get my hands on the UK/Australian/wherever version. On the bright side, at least we all get to share the tacky Scarlett card with the serial number on full display...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
Interesting to see how the non-US rules book is
designed. I knew it was somewhat different from a glimpse I got in Instagram, but
WOW. Those suspect profiles are much easier to read than the small white lettering
against the blue "leather" back cover. I still really, REALLY wish the design "language"
of the rules book had carried into the cards & notebooks, too.

Would love to see the rest of the Clue cards & suspect figures, when you've time to
take pictures/scan them. I'm surprised there's meant to be 29 of them (awkward sort
of number), but not too surprised the US edition got skimmed down to 9. It fits with
Clue's status as a budget game (compared to Monopoly, Life, and Risk, it's produced
more like the newest Sorry, Trouble, and Yahtzee) & the whole "made in the USA" crap
Hasbro's been pushing in recent years (b/c "made in the USA" really just means
"cheap junk" when it comes to toys, games, and Ford vehicles).

One wonders why Hasbro US even bothered keeping the Clue cards? Surely standard
dice in lieu of the custom dice and printing/packing 9 less cards would have been cheaper.

Now I really need to get my hands on the UK/Australian/wherever version. On the
bright side, at least we all get to share the tacky Scarlett card with the serial number
on full display...


im anxious to play a game with these clue cards ... They actually seem like fun. That said, I'm not sure
why they insist on an odd number of them. Maybe it has to do with printing a sheet of even numbered cards --
30 for the NA (21 suspect/weapon/room & 9 clue cards) and 50 international (21 + 29). In the original Cluedo games,
there was traditionally a "spare", which would bring a sheet of cards up to an even 22 for printing. What's even more
perplexing is that I'm not sure how they whittled the 29 down to 9, and would be very interested to see which
match up to the US versions. In general, there are 9 cards that match up to the specific rooms (where),
and 6 cards each that match up to specific suspects and weapons (who and what) -- note there's an expense
right there just printing a different set with REV Green (which name change makes no sense as his NA bio
lists him as posing as a REV!), then there are 8 general "peek", or re-location cards. So you see the dilemma --
the NA version may have a 9th card that even the Int'l version doesn't, as I can't see them having just one
of the very specific who, what, where cards.

I assume all 8 of these cards appear in the NA edition:




These I assume are specific to the Cluedo edition only, and none are in the NA version. Which begs the question:
What is the 9th card in the NA set? Something unique, or a repeat of one of the other 8?





And of course the new card backs. By the way -- I mentioned it earlier, but it bears repeating here:
The quality of these cards is much more substantial than recent US editions, something I would expect
In keeping with the overall higher quality level found in Cluedo editions.



Oh, until I get a chance to do some higher quality pictures, here's the suspect tokens. The only odd
thing is that Green is lurching forward for some reason.



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent photos, MBD! You're correct, the US version has one unique Clue card, plus the eight you singled out from the Cluedo edition. It reads:

Quote:
Things that go bump in the night!

Pick one player, both draw a card at random from the other and take a sneaky peak.


And if it were included in the Cluedo game, you'd have a reasonable, rounded deck of 30 clue cards. But I guess it does come down to printing the entire set of cards in one go. 30 or 50 cards at once makes more sense than 51 cards.

I can see how those additional cards would really speed up the game, calling out specific suspects/weapons/rooms each time. As fun as they are to read, I do like that the 9 picked for the US version are more general.

Has any other Cluedo game used Wrench in lieu of Spanner? I've always thought the words were interchangeable, but I could be wrong, and a spanner is a specific tool different from a wrench.

As for the cardstock, I've no way (yet) of knowing how the European/etc cards feel, but I can confirm the US cards feel much sturdier than the flimsy set included in both previous versions.

I'll never stop griping about this: those character figures are solid, colored plastic, and there's no reason the US version couldn't have had them, too (a side panel on the box says only the dice and weapons were made in China...surely someone in the US could have 3D printed/molded plastic figures). Odd, though, it seems all of them except Plum were modeled after the poses on the box.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
Excellent photos, MBD! You're correct, the US version has
one unique Clue card, plus the eight you singled out from the Cluedo edition.
It reads:


Quote:
Things that go bump in the night!

Pick one player, both draw a card at random from the other and take a
sneaky peak.


And if it were included in the Cluedo game, you'd have a reasonable, rounded deck of
30 clue cards. But I guess it does come down to printing the entire set of cards in one
go. 30 or 50 cards at once makes more sense than 51 cards.

I can see how those additional cards would really speed up the game, calling out
specific suspects/weapons/rooms each time. As fun as they are to read, I do like that
the 9 picked for the US version are more general.

Has any other Cluedo game used Wrench in lieu of Spanner? I've always thought the
words were interchangeable, but I could be wrong, and a spanner is a specific tool
different from a wrench.

As for the cardstock, I've no way (yet) of knowing how the European/etc cards feel,
but I can confirm the US cards feel much sturdier than the flimsy set included in both
previous versions.

I'll never stop griping about this: those character figures are solid, colored plastic,
and there's no reason the US version couldn't have had them, too (a side panel on the
box says only the dice and weapons were made in China...surely someone in the US
could have 3D printed/molded plastic figures). Odd, though, it seems all of them
except Plum were modeled after the poses on the box
.


Crap. Now I will have to buy the US edition! I actually like that card a lot! Haha
Please post a photo of it when you get a chance. Does is it basically the same format as
the "SCREEEEM!" card? If so, What an oddball as the heading title "Things that go bump
in the night" must be several lines of text compared the single lines on all the rest.

How do the instructions compare to your US instructions?

As far as Spanner is concerned, yes, other Cludeo editions did use The Wrench -- I want
to say that started with the 2002 edition if not earlier after Hasbro bought Waddingtons
and Parker -- when they started hybridizing the editions to save money.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MBD, I've never been certain, but are you US based, or elsewhere? If you're here in the US, Hasbro's customer service team will probably mail you a deck of cards for nothing. I called them seeking replacement notepads for the previous edition, and they informed me I'd be receiving that and a deck of cards, since they automatically come together. 4-6 weeks later, there they were. I've actually never had to send Hasbro/Parker Brothers money to get replacement game pieces, be it Clue notebooks or a new Monopoly board.

Unless you want a whole US set, just because. Then go for it!

I'll scan the card & the US rules booklet after I post this. The US booklet is a page shorter, missing the "case file" type introductory spread, and with the suspect bios slapped onto the back cover page.

What I hate are the final two pages. They're just a condensed repeat of the basic rules of the game, often not even rewritten from how it's spelled out on previous pages. That space could have (should have) been the suspect bios spread instead.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, HERE is a PDF of the Clue rules booklet/game guide (whatever Hasbro is calling them now). My scanner has a bad habit of chopping off dark edges, hence the oddly trimmed look along the left-hand pages.

And here is the 9th Clue card (click for full sized image):



Random thought (because it's 3:15, and who needs sleep?): any thoughts on how Hasbro decides which market (North America, Europe, Asia, etc) gets which type of packaging (full boxes, or square boxes)? I've long felt most games would be just fine in a square box (and retailers could keep more stock, not to mention easier storage for players), and was wondering why, specifically, Monopoly and Clue(do) are in opposite packaging across the pond. US Monopoly is in a large box, UK is square; Clue square, Cluedo large. Even the 2002 version got a square box in some countries. Wouldn't it be simpler (cheaper, overall) to just make one version of everything, without reformatting box art for different markets? What factors decide how a game is marketed/packaged from one region to the next?

/rant
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
MBD, I've never been certain, but are you US based, or elsewhere?
If you're here in the US, Hasbro's customer service team will probably mail you a deck of
cards for nothing. I called them seeking replacement notepads for the previous edition,
and they informed me I'd be receiving that and a deck of cards, since they automatically
come together. 4-6 weeks later, there they were. I've actually never had to send Hasbro/Parker
Brothers money to get replacement game pieces, be it Clue notebooks or a new Monopoly board.

Unless you want a whole US set, just because. Then go for it!

I'll scan the card & the US rules booklet after I post this. The US booklet is a page shorter,
missing the "case file" type introductory spread, and with the suspect bios slapped onto the
back cover page.

What I hate are the final two pages. They're just a condensed repeat of the basic rules of the
game, often not even rewritten from how it's spelled out on previous pages. That space could
have (should have) been the suspect bios spread instead.


I'm in the US. I might try that with the cards, or I may just pick up the NA edition at
some point when I find it on sale.


alwaysPeacock wrote:
Okay, HERE is a PDF of the Clue rules booklet/game guide (whatever Hasbro is calling them now).
My scanner has a bad habit of chopping off dark edges, hence the oddly trimmed look along
the left-hand pages.

And here is the 9th Clue card (click for full sized image):



Random thought (because it's 3:15, and who needs sleep?): any thoughts on how Hasbro
decides which market (North America, Europe, Asia, etc) gets which type of packaging (full boxes,
or square boxes)? I've long felt most games would be just fine in a square box (and retailers
could keep more stock, not to mention easier storage for players), and was wondering why,
specifically, Monopoly and Clue(do) are in opposite packaging across the pond. US Monopoly
is in a large box, UK is square; Clue square, Cluedo large. Even the 2002 version got a square
box in some countries. Wouldn't it be simpler (cheaper, overall) to just make one version of
everything, without reformatting box art for different markets? What factors decide how a game
is marketed/packaged from one region to the next?

/rant



Thanks for the card and the guide. I may try to make my own card to add to the Cluedo deck
at some point. With the playing cards, I don't think it matters as much whether they are the
actual card stock or not. People may know what card is up next in that particular deck, but it
doesn't matter since they are drawn by chance, and acted up on immediately.

However, you've confirmed my thoughts, that the US 9th card looks ridiculously out of place
with the other 8 single line-captioned cards.



I've already got plans to make a Mrs. White card, so for that one, I will actually need another
Cluedo card -- this is where that Spare the old games used to come with would come
in handy. I'll also need another plastic Dr. Orchid pawn to paint white. Fortunately the
hair is about the same length, albeit not wavy. Too bad there's no Mrs. White pawn,
holding the little dog -- I wonder if Hasbro got far enough with the first draft of the
game to create one? Three simple changes and Mrs. White is back in the game:



As for your rant -- Here's what I have come to believe:

The Cluedo editions have always been of a higher quality than the US editions. In the UK, the
first edition included such "deluxe" features as a dice cup, and lined storage trays. In my estimation,
board games are much more of a treasured family tradition, even today, than they have been
in the US, and especially here today. The US has turned into a much more of a solitary TV culture,
and subsequently gaming as well. My general impression from the UK, and Australia especially is that
TV is not that important to families. Therefore, the quality of our games reflect that. That said, I noticed
that there are square box editions of Monopoly and other games, along side full-sized versions of them
in Australia, so perhaps there is a move toward exactly what you propose. This may well be the last high
quality Cluedo game.

Of course manufacture of a single edition would eventually equalize the cost over economies of scale,
but then there may be significant advantages to printing and shipping the US versions with tariffs and
taxes, vs. the international versions as well. On the other hand, some games like Clue/do lend themselves
to a square box more readily since the advent of the quad-fold board. Obviously a shallow square box will
accommodate the more limited playing parts, than the same box would Monopoly's many more parts,
so depth would likely also be an issue for some games in a square format -- at which point would it be more
advantageous to switch to a longer, thinner, box?

I'd have to see the editions you are referencing for the previously released square boxes in some other
countries, but my feeling is that before 2008, all bets are off, as Hasbro was still likely dealing with licensing
issues in various territories -- arrangements made by Parker and Waddingtons for artwork and designs, and
local cultural conventions, such as quality of the game vs. cost, over which Hasbro had no control. It seems
to me Hasbro has slowly started to unify all of its games under one roof, which may lead to a further eroding,
and homogenization of the local character of the some of the games. Sadly, if that's the case, I think the
lower North American standards will ultimately win out over the higher quality international versions.

It also, occurs to me that Discover the Secrets in 2008, may have been an effort to circumvent
some of the licenses Hasbro inherited worldwide -- note the Winning Moves licenses to the various
editions it produces, which seems to limit them strictly to that particular artwork.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the Cluedo suspect, weapon and room cards. They're likely identical
to the NA version, with the exception of Reverend Green. It's worth noting alwaysPeacock's
comments about the card designs would be more interesting if they better integrated
into the game. I'm not sure leather makes much sense here, as what are the cards
supposed to be? After all they are still cards, not mini books. Maybe they could be cards,
in which case the artwork on the backs would be OK, but maybe use the same techniques
as the instruction manual to "tape" on "photos" of the suspects, rooms, and weapons,
using highlights and "notes" on the Clue cards. I'll mock up some ideas at some point.





Again the rooms are merely likely duplicates of the NA edition with a different branding.
It does bare mentioning that some of the cards oddly do not include some of the unique
features which appear in the rooms, which I'll delineate when I post the individual rooms.
It is worth noting here that the suitcase in the Conservatory appears in its entirety only on
the card, as the label partially obstructs it on the board. In general, it would be nice if the
unique features of the room cards were somehow reflected in the clue cards, giving us
some kind of clue as to what was intended. And in the case of the Lounge, I don't even
believe there is a phone in there as referenced on its clue card.





The Lounge has a curious feature -- what appears to be a green glass desk, or coffee
table with extensions. I'm not sure I've ever seen anything like it. And the unique focal
point of this room appears to be the envelope-looking items on, and particularly
underneath it, as if it's fallen on the floor. This feature is central to both the board and
the cards. But are they envelopes? What an odd thing to feature in the Lounge, though
I suppose where else does one go to read their love letters?





The conservatory's unique feature appears to be a large suitcase laying in the middle of
the room. Oddly, this feature is partially obscured on the board itself, by the room label.
It's strange they would go to the trouble to add this feature, then mostly cover it by
label placement. Makes me wonder if they decided to change the label placement at a
later date, or if nobody was coordinating this at all.





The Billiard Room has an interesting feature in that there is a large pile of money on the
floor. They appear to be US currency, but with someone who looks like the late Prince on
the front. And it appears to be considerably oversized, and out of scale with the rest of
the room, unless it's some large format international currency. Yeah, let's go with that.





The Library's central feature is a bouquet of roses, which may or may not be oversized
and out of scale for the room. This all depends on how big the bouquet is supposed to be.
In this case, it looks huge -- more like bulk flowers bought for decorating than a gift to
someone, or given to the horse who wins of the Kentucky Derby. This is another feature
which is strangely missing from the card.





The Study clearly has an open safe as its focal point, with papers of some sort
spilling out -- could they be stocks and bonds, or secret corporate documents, or
blackmail material. Seems an odd thing for a safe -- jewelry might be more appropriate,
though at least this is to proper scale. I'm not sure such an obvious safe would be sitting
out in the open in a room like this -- a nice touch would have been a large picture propped
against the wall next to it. Again, the safe is not featured on the card. Really strange that
they go to the effort then fail to maintain it across the game elements.




The Hall has the most obvious and natural featured item, a toppled statue.




It's worth mentioning here that the Ballroom's featured item (pictured in an earlier thread)
is a set of footprints, thankfully at the proper size and scale. Unfortunately, they're very
hard to see, and once again the room label partially obscures them -- except in this case,
they are completely left off the card as well.


However, the kitchen makes up for the omission by making sure we don't miss the
ridiculously oversized and out of scale boot, which appears on both the board and card.


And finally the Dining Room, which appears to have a ridiculously oversized and out of scale
wine bottle, until one considers the possibility it might be a magnum of wine -- a rare vintage
opened for the party, and decanted in a magnum sized wine glass.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: square boxes, here's the 2011 version in the smaller box:


and the 2002 edition:


I've even spotted Winning Moves' "Classic Edition" in a square box at a couple of department stores, though the bookstores are still selling the long box.

Quote:
Obviously a shallow square box will
accommodate the more limited playing parts, than the same box would Monopoly's many more parts


I think the only modern, commercial board games that really need a bigger box are Risk (tons of pieces) and Scrabble (which needs as FLAT a playing surface as possible). Otherwise, the contents of games like Clue, Monopoly, Life, Sorry etc can all fit just fine in a square box, even if it means getting rid of the box insert to make more room (which I imagine would be necessary for Life and Monopoly).
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your Mrs. White card! Wouldn't surprise me if that's how such a card would end up looking if Hasbro decided to take another stab at a spin off game (was Secrets & Spies the only one we got during the "C.L.U.E. Houses" era?) and add her to the suspect lineup.

My biggest gripe with these cards is the placement of the words. When playing, and fanning my cards to look over them, all the text is covered. The older versions were much more convenient to quickly scanning, with the text printed along the top, bottom, and sides. Minor complaint, but still.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Box Back contained nothing we haven't already seen, but it is obviously
a departure from the NA square edition, with uniquely branded Cluedo elements.
One thing in particular that stood out to me is that the deck of cards appears to be
the same thickness in any promo photos of either version of the game. A deck of 30
cards is going to look quite a bit thinner than a deck of 50.



@alwaysPeacock — here’s a quick stab at revising the cards per your suggestion.
Is this what you had in mind?



What’s interesting is that the board uses both a formal label box for the room names,
and the “scrapbook effect” for the secret passage labels. To update the whole game,
the rooms name labels would need to be given the same treatment. But then I wonder
if the whole board wouldn’t need to be given the same treatment as well. Something
similar to the Supernatural or Big Bang Theory editions, which I personally think are
very well done, but I doubt what you had in mind.







Last edited by Murder by Death on Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
I like your Mrs. White card! Wouldn't surprise me if that's
how such a card would end up looking if Hasbro decided to take another stab at a
spin off game (was Secrets & Spies the only one we got during the "C.L.U.E.
Houses" era?) and add her to the suspect lineup.

My biggest gripe with these cards is the placement of the words. When playing,
and fanning my cards to look over them, all the text is covered. The older
versions were much more convenient to quickly scanning, with the text printed
along the top, bottom, and sides. Minor complaint, but still.


Interesting. Your complaint applies to the Franklin Mint edition and all of
the derivative editions using those cards and artwork. All of the labels are only at
the bottom. There was at least one Cluedo edition that took this approach as well,
the Super Sleuth Ultimate Challenge.








One could argue that the labels are unnecessary with many of the games in that
the characters and weapons are so iconic as to not need labels, and especially when
it comes to the Franklin Mint Editions, the pictures are enough to identify the rooms.
It's slightly more complicated in many other editions where some rooms, like the
study, lounge, and library, in particular can be mistaken for each other. But you're right,
fanning them out in one's hand to quickly identify them to draw and present to another
player following a suggestion makes this slower than it need be. I have to say I never once
thought about it playing either Super Sleuth or Franklin Mint editions. I obviously never
reference the cards after I have marked them on my detective sheet, other than to
disprove a suggestion, in which case, I tend to organize and stack my cards by type,
and then quickly thumb through the stack until I find the card I'm looking for. Not the
most efficient method, but nevertheless the way I do it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MBD, thank you for all your text and pictures and (witty) point-outs Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
Re: square boxes, here's the 2011 version in the smaller box:


and the 2002 edition:


I've even spotted Winning Moves' "Classic Edition" in a square box at a couple of
department stores, though the bookstores are still selling the long box.

Quote:
[size=24]Obviously a shallow square box will
accommodate the more limited playing parts, than the same box would Monopoly's
many more parts


I think the only modern, commercial board games that really need a bigger box
are Risk (tons of pieces) and Scrabble (which needs as FLAT a playing surface
as possible). Otherwise, the contents of games like Clue, Monopoly, Life, Sorry etc
can all fit just fine in a square box, even if it means getting rid of the box insert
to make more room (which I imagine would be necessary for Life and Monopoly)
.[/size]


Obviously I was aware of the square 2002 edition, of which there were many derivative
versions in boxes and travel editions and the like. I'm not sure I had seen the more recent
TCMG Cluedo square box. One could say that these editions are only produced at the end
of the run, once they've delivered the high quality games to their target audience, and then
seek to cut costs after initial sales decline, until they are ready to update the game again.
We'd have to look at the sales figures, which obviously we aren't going to get access to.
Unless you are saying that these square box editions are being launched simultaneously
as the larger box editions? There's also an argument to be made that the square box
editions were created to replace the travel editions. We'd have to look at the timeline,
and see if both the larger box cluedo edition was being sold alongside the square box.
The mini-travel editions I believe stopped being sold after the 2002 edition.
CORRECTION: there was a Discover the Secrets mini "Grab and Go" sold. Curiously,
was there ever a square box version of DTS?

By the way ... take a look at the quality inside the Cluedo 2002 edition compared to
Clue square boxes this suggests to me it's less about cost, and more about travel size,
or gaining a presence on smaller retailers shelves where they otherwise wouldn't have room:



Note the French company Miro produced both this square box and long box at the same time
in the 60s & 70s -- both game boxes of the same high quality, further lending credence to
this theory. Though, there were some other square editions from this era that used cheap
plastic boards as well, so there are likely many reasons for these decisions.



I have to say I was surprised to learn about the Winning Moves being sold as a square box.
But I can only assume similar cost saving measures, especially since it's being sold in the US
and not necessarily subjected to the same standards as Cluedo editions. But it's still very
disappointing move by a game company that made it's reputation based on quality and
nostalgia. Then again, they sold a high quality long box for a long time, and as sales are
presumably in decline, they are looking for a way to maintain a presence, until the revamp
the game -- hopefully this means that's coming. Then again, what's odd about it, is that the
square box is not sold on Winning Moves own website. This lends credence to the theory that
in order to supply some retailers, they have to provide a more compact box to obtain shelf space.
Hasbro obviously is the primary game vendor to any retailer, and after they fill the shelves with
their games, there's not a lot left over for other games. Why would a retailer take up shelf space
selling two versions of Clue, especially when a lesser manufacture is offering a product bigger
than Hasbro's own? Thus, WM makes a "retail" version which is only sold to certain retailers who
demand it for shelf space, and continue to sell the full-sized editions everywhere else. In which case,
I'd be curious to see if they maintain the same high quality
inside the square box as well, unlike the cheap Hasbro Clue box.



But notice that even the Winning Moves UK Cluedo Editions are released in large boxes,
despite being an incredibly cheap edition. Which sort of reinforces the theory that at least
in the UK, they take their board games very seriously. Yes, you could probably squeeze
Monopoly into a square box, but what about the plastic money trays and card holders, etc?
Maybe that would fly in the US, but would the UK and some other international territories
go for that? As for Monopoly in particular, one look at the Hasbro US website shows that all of
their "adult" versions are larger boxes, only the "junior" editions are in square boxes
(the version most likely to travel?).

As for box size, note that even Hasbro themselves has released the Star Wars Clue edition in
the large box here in the US. They likely could have squeezed that into a square box too,
but it would have had to have been much deeper than the the Clue box for instance.
Then again, it's also being sold as a premium product. USAopoly, another low quality game
maker sells their editions in larger boxes as well -- then again they sell them for a premium
as well, sp maybe that has something to do with it?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MBD: those revised cards are great! What I'd pictured in my head was something like the rules booklet, a kind of paper background with the pictures & labels "taped" on.

And yeah, my little complaint about the layout of the cards is nothing new. It was especially bothersome in the 2011 version, which had those small full body shots of the suspects against the black background. At least the new one has more color, so it's somewhat easier to quickly ran the cards & spot the one you need.

One note about the WM Classic edition: even though the box is smaller, the retailers I saw offering it were still pricing it anywhere from $30-45. Even in the long box, this edition is not worth that kind of price tag as it's not really a premium game inside the box.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
MBD: those revised cards are great! What I'd pictured in my
head was something like the rules booklet, a kind of paper background with the pictures & labels
"taped" on.

And yeah, my little complaint about the layout of the cards is nothing new. It was especially
bothersome in the 2011 version, which had those small full body shots of the suspects against the
black background. At least the new one has more color, so it's somewhat easier to quickly ran
the cards & spot the one you need.

One note about the WM Classic edition: even though the box is smaller, the retailers I saw offering
it were still pricing it anywhere from $30-45. Even in the long box, this edition is not worth that
kind of price tag as it's not really a premium game inside the box.


Yeah, I wanant sure what you mean with the leather, but I had the same idea. I'll play with it a bit.
But as I said, the board needs to be modified too. In fact I wouldn't be too unhappy actually covering
the labels on the board and having a 3D relief on it.

I had forgotten about the DTS and TCMG cards. I actually never played with either, choosing
instead to play on those boards with card sets from other games -- those characters were all so
horrible, I couldn't stand to look at them through an entire game!

And I agree about the WS Classic game. The same is true for all of the USAopoly games as well,
which sell for $50. Customer pewter weapons are not worth that kind of markup for a cookie-cutter
template, thought they have been really improving the art since TCMG, but even that's not worth
such a markup.

Here's an interesting observation:

I went online to see about ordering the NA square box Clue edition of this game,
and found that Target doesn't even list it -- just the $20 Winning Moves Classic, and the
1986 Hasbro re-issue. I went to my local target where I found it was sold out, but the
space seemed only big enough for the square box and it was priced at $9. What's really
odd is Wal-Mart has it for $8, K-Mart has it for $12, and Amazon has it for almost $17,
even though Hasbro lists it for $10. So what's with this huge swing in price?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this a new Clue Jr. Game too, that mirrors the new adult game theme?

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