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Cluedo introduce new character and kill off a classic!!!!!
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Mr_Scarlett
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:46 am    Post subject: Cluedo introduce new character and kill off a classic!!!!! Reply with quote

Mrs. White has been killed off from UK Cluedo and replaced with Dr. Orchid!

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/cluedo-first-new-character-dr-orchid-mrs-white-dead-1949-hasbro-a7118351.html

Shocked
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BBP
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good grief!

Shall we start a petition to keep her?
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the last straw. Really. I mean why call it Cluedo anymore?

But what game release will this happen with. Is it out already?

It appears they've decided to eliminate the maid (one commenter posted "classism, they got rid of the only working-class character") introduced a professional female, and added permanent Asian character, despite Scarlett long having been represented as an Asian.

It's all very, disturbingly PC.

So what is the new paradigm:

White male jock, black male businessman, white male professor. Asian female doctor, white female politician, white female actress?

I guess the next thing up is a name change for Mr. green ... I mean he's the only one with a boring old primary color for a name.

So very dissapointing.

EDIT:

Oh and here it is:
http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a800217/cluedo-axes-dated-housekeeper-mrs-white-after-67-years-replaces-her-new-modern-woman-dr-orchid/

https://i0.wp.com/www.eveningexpress.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/07/Cluedo3.jpg








US VERSION: No REV. GREEN



Last edited by Murder by Death on Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:39 pm; edited 10 times in total
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BBP
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was he a reverend at first, or was that a later addition?
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBP wrote:
Was he a reverend at first, or was that a later addition?


He was a Reverend first.

I'm actually shocked that they eliminated Mrs. white, but made Mr. Green a reverend again. I wonder if he'll remain "Mr." In the US version. i guess clergy bashing is currently in enough to get away with this. Truly surprising.

And they've returned to the classic game board design, with the original rooms! They've even gone back to the original spelling of Miss Scarlett!

So they slap "classic" on the box, give us a return to classic artwork and board design, even give us Reverend Green again, but they take away one of the essential characters!

Unbelievable!!

And it's too bad too, as the characters are not half bad representations of the originals. What was wrong with calling her Dr. White? Make her Asian, but leave the character name. The only clue I have is that in the artwork, you can still see the Asian names on the board for some rooms. That tells me this was primarily a marketing move for the growing Chinese market -- everything now is about servicing the Chinese. I see they also dropped the black Mr. Green, as the Chinese have a preference for light-skinned people. Now I really wonder what they will do with Green in the US. Hard to imagine they will change it substantially in order to keep costs down, but I suppose as long as they are making regional games to accomodate language, I guess they can change up the characters as they always have. I guess we should look forward to a North American version with a Latin character?

EDIT: I just noticed Dr. Orchid is now PINK!! Even though the most common orchid is white. Unbelievable!!!!

This doesn't even make any sense:

Quote:
Mrs White, the chef, maid and all-round keeper of Tudor Mansion, is no longer a suspect in the ghoulish perpetual resurrection and slaying cycle of poor Dr Black. Instead, the game has introduced Dr Orchid, Dr Black’s adopted daughter. A brilliant scientist in her own right, Cluedo lore has it that she was mostly raised by Mrs White, giving her replacement of the character a seriously Shakespearean vibe.
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry but despite returning the original game board, original rules, original weapons (even a return to statuette tokens), and 5 of the original names with appropriate depictions, this is in many ways worse than DTS.

Two constants about Cluedo --

Character colors and names:

Scarlett - red
Mustard - yellow
White - white
Green - green
Peacock - blue
Plum - purple

Rooms and weapons can change. But the character sir names and associated colors are trademarks. I can even live with the different titles, as there's original precedent for that with Green.

Want to update White for a more PC generation? Fine, make her Dr. Black's daughter Dr. White (married name), who followed in her fathers footsteps.

The only saving grace here is that they haven't changed Mrs. White, just replaced her with a pink colored representation of a new character named orchid.

But it doesn't change the fact they have ruined a perfectly good new edition with this tone-deaf move. I mean what were they thinking!?

They got rid of the only black character they introduced, and replaced a trademark one with an Asian, even though it was unecessary to do that. Meanwhile we've got 5 other white characters! No offense to Asians, but this is almost worse in terms of representative ethnicities, and emphasizes the token aspect of what they are doing. How about a black Professor Plum? Or a Latin Miss Scarlett?

What is going on at Hasbro!?
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Black
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a brief read of Dr. Orchid. Reading her profile and the design she has. Isn't she a knock off Lady Lavender?
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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y'all,

Yes, Mrs. White is dead. Yes, this Orchid is a less "exotic" Lady Lavender.

BUT

Look at the board! It's (as far as I can tell) the classic board layout!

THEY GAVE US BACK OUR GAME!

I'd actually been thinking a revamp was coming. I recently contacted Hasbro to get another set of notepads for the current, awful, double-sided edition (it's the only one I get to play regularly, don't judge me), and they said they would send me a pad & apologized for not being able to also include a deck of cards (I don't need one, but apparently the two normally ship together by default) because they'd stopped printing them.

Fast forward a few weeks, and I noticed the current edition wasn't listed on Target's website. They only had their 1986 retro edition. To me, this suggested a new game on the way.

It's odd that they'd come up with a storyline which ages out one character to death (White), freezes another in time (Mustard, maybe Scarlett too), and "youthens" the rest (Plum, Peacock, Green). However, I'm glad this new game storyline seems to have the kind of thought the 2002-2005 series of games had, rather than the vague "CLUE House" thing that was recycled through two editions and quickly aborted.

I even like the suspect art. The new Dr. Olive is somewhat reminiscent of Madeline Kahn's Mrs. White, which can't just be coincidence. I'm not entirely sold on the box art, but it is eye catching. Definitely an improved the all Scarlett DTS and bland front porch of the newest one.

My biggest concern: are we getting this in the US, too? I'd assume Hasbro wants some unity amongst their products. But the big tend in slapping MADE IN THE USA on the box makes me worried we'll either get a cheaper version of this or no update at all. Unless Hasbro found an American printer to produce a stiffer board and the plastic figures.
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CluedoKid
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrs. White isn't dead. Not because an inept Hasbro CEO said so. She is resting, and will be back.
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cluedoking123
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we just not allowed to have nice things? like seriously. They get ride of the classic manor vibe. Then when they decided to give us that back they start screwing with the characters....*twitch*
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cacums
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the new game. It's a step in the right direction. We have our mansion back!!! I'm not too broken up about Mrs. White. She'll probably be back eventually. Besides, Mrs. White's character was practically removed from the Clue Movie, so we should be somewhat okay with her character change.
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Mr_Scarlett
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the new game! The original board and weapons are there, and the titles (Miss/Mrs/ Prof) are back which is important to me (none of that ‘House of’ stuff!)

Although I’m shocked and a little sad that Mrs. White has been killed off, I understand why. Hasbro are trying to renew interest in the game, and the fact that a character with 70 years history has been ‘killed off’ has certainly done that! In the UK, the story has made the news and created lots of hype. I understand that people are thinking that it is because of the name White, but I think that it is simply because Mrs. White was the least ‘iconic’ character. I REALLY like the fact that Mrs. White hasn’t been replaced and is still acknowledged in the game as Dr. Orchid’s home school teacher, and that Dr. Orchid is pink not white!

I see that someone has noticed that Dr.Orchid reminds them of Mrs. White in the movie, I also think that Mrs. Peacock looks like a young Eileen Brennan! Pure co-incidence I’m sure, but cool nevertheless!
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cacums wrote:
I like the new game. It's a step in the right direction. We have our mansion back!!! I'm not too broken up about Mrs. White. She'll probably be back eventually. Besides, Mrs. White's character was practically removed from the Clue Movie, so we should be somewhat okay with her character change.


Et Tu?

There are some who adore Mrs. White, and in no small part due to Madeline Kahn's portrayal in the movie. Love it or hate it, that performance is rendered moot for a generation raised on Dr. Orchid.

I would have been happier if they had just updated her like the movie. Make her "Dr. White", and for the die hard among us, we can all give her the backstory that she put herself through medical school while working for Dr. Black.

And what's with these back stories anyway? We never really had them until the last decade. The character names and depictions told us all we needed to know. Let kids use their imagination and create the back story as they play. It's not like any of it makes a difference to solving the murders.

And why not give us an optional character? Why take one away? Add Dr. Orchid -- the worst that could happen is they play with 7 suspects instead of 6, and how often does anyone get even 6 players together for a Cluedo game? The 7th character could be a random drawn, or an intentional selection, to accomodate more female players, to be he murder victim, or just a choice.

Heck, I would have been happier if Mrs. white ended up being the Murder victim. At least she would still be part of the game. And now we have a universal motive -- Mrs. white overheard a guest's conversation and had to be silenced before she told anyone else. How's that for a backstory?

It's just a shame really. And I'm kind of shocked that you're OK with it. What happens in a couple of years when they come for Rev./Mr. Green? And then Colonel Mustard? Where does it stop? Is it OK until they get to your favorite character?

Fortunately, I can buy this game, and get a great new game board to use with any set of game cards I want. I suppose I can spray paint Dr. Orchid and make her Mrs. white again, assuming I like the new tokens enough to play with them. The character artwork is much nicer in many earlier games anyway. And considering modern printing avilability, easy enough to print new card faces to stick over these.
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CluedoKid
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, and Kahn's character didn't remove Mrs. White, merely reinvented the character as a guest, and not a maid. She was still Mrs. White.

I think it would have been nice to make Dr. Peacock, as a nod to Master Detective perhaps, or how about a Dr. Scarlet, and do away with the stereotypical sex symbol, which may do more harm than the image of a domestic working woman as a role model?

What makes this feel somewhat alarming is that is gives the signal that older working women are irrelevant, and unflattering past a certain age, or that their only use is to reinforce themselves secondary to more viable, attractive women, as is having Mrs. White being just a caregiver to Dr. Orchid. :/
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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No word from Hasbro yet on whether or not we'll be getting this edition in the States. I emailed an inquiry & was told since any number of things could change between the release of a prototype image and final release designs, they could not comment on items not listed in stock on their website.

So, they didn't really answer my question, but it does make me think we might end up getting a cheaper version of this eventually. I picture another flimsy cardboard board, smaller box, thin cards, and probably generic pawns in lieu of the figures shown in the UK images.

Or I'm completely wrong, and we'll get the same game. I'm hopeful, but not optimistic.

Quote:
And what's with these back stories anyway? We never really had them until the last decade.


To be fair, I'm pretty sure backstories were introduced in Master Detective. I agree that most of the time they're nothing more than nice filler for the rules book/box insert, but I like to think that maybe Hasbro is gearing up for another line of spin off games (maybe another TV series) where these backstories will be put to more use (like in Clue FX, Mysteries, and DVD game).
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BBP
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does she have to be a doctor? Why not a few working class people?
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
No word from Hasbro yet on whether or not we'll be getting this edition in the States. I emailed an inquiry & was told since any number of things could change between the release of a prototype image and final release designs, they could not comment on items not listed in stock on their website.

So, they didn't really answer my question, but it does make me think we might end up getting a cheaper version of this eventually. I picture another flimsy cardboard board, smaller box, thin cards, and probably generic pawns in lieu of the figures shown in the UK images.

Or I'm completely wrong, and we'll get the same game. I'm hopeful, but not optimistic.

Quote:
And what's with these back stories anyway? We never really had them until the last decade.



To be fair, I'm pretty sure backstories were introduced in Master Detective. I agree that most of the time they're nothing more than nice filler for the rules book/box insert, but I like to think that maybe Hasbro is gearing up for another line of spin off games (maybe another TV series) where these backstories will be put to more use (like in Clue FX, Mysteries, and DVD game).


True about Master Detective, but they weren't extensive like the early 2000 games. To be completely accurate the VHS game was probably the first to delve into back characters.

I would bet they do release this in the US, but I'm pretty skeptical that Rev. Green makes the cut. The character looks like he could easily be a Wall Street trader with a clothing alteration.

As for using this as the basis of a new TV series, I wouldn't necessarily bet on it. It seems a little too traditional to be the basis of a series for current audiences. Though anything's possible. I would have never guessed a new series about HG Welles traveling through time with a museum curator, while chasing Jack the Ripper, to get the inspiration for his yet to be written novels would be viable.

I would dearly like to see an updated set of expansion games, and perhaps a long overdue new Master Detective game might give us back Mrs. White, since she wasn't replaced per se, just omitted.
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cacums
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An Updated MD would be beautiful! I would love to see a classic proper English country mansion again. I can't tell from the pictures, but I imagine the rooms are going to be loud and cluttered like the past few
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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random observation: Just noticed some of the doors have changed (at least in that promotional image). The Conservatory door has moved over, making it 5 steps from the Ballroom rather than 4 (not really an issue with two dice in play; still don't understand why Clue only had one for so many years). Also looks like the side door from the Hall towards the Study has been axed, leaving only the double door by the center of the board.

So, not 100% the classic board, but still so, SO much better than the current board (especially the awkwardly tiled, two-sided version...bleh...)

The more I look at this board, though, the more I like it. The rooms look clean again, and very simply designed. I like how each room seems to have solid colored, bright walls. The corridors between the rooms stand out very nicely -- a relief for me as some of my usual gaming partners have issues with some board spotting the doorways.

I like the contrast between the dark night outside the house and the BRIGHT interiors. To me it looks like the guests/police switched on every light in the house in an attempt to uncover every shred of evidence.

And something about the house makes me think I'd be very uncomfortable if I were there in reality. The Ballroom and Dining Room are giving me a bit of a Stepford vibe -- just a little too perfect. Mrs. White certainly went out with a bang the last time she scrubbed down this house!
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Zoo977
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I have kind of a weird opinion of these things, so bear with me.

Comic books and similar do this kind of thing all the time. They take a beloved character and conveniently kill them off for the sake of ratings, only to bring them back like two issues later. (I know this ain't unique to comics, but it's just so much worse with them, jesus) I hate when they pull crap like that, but I still get why the writers with no emotional attachment choose to do this, even if I dislike it. And out of the characters they could choose to scrap, I get why they would choose Mrs. White. Miss Scarlet and Professor Plum and Mrs. Peacock have a certain something that the name Mrs. White just doesn't have. I get it on those terms. I have no doubt Mrs. White will appear again in the future. I may be just a bit desensitized to all this, cause I can't bring myself to hate this as much as I would some time ago.

I'm not as angry about that as I am that they chose the name Dr. Orchid.

Again, all the classic names carried personality and pep to them. Doctor Orchid gives you no idea who the character is as a person. If they'd used Miss Peach or Madame Rose instead, they would have been much better. If you want to add your cluedo OC to the canon, make it one with an equally personality-filled name. Even the color pink is kind of a bad choice. There's already purple and red - if a player was colorblind, pieces could easily start looking similar. Even having a white pawn helped keep the other pawns from looking too bright and goofy for a game about homicide - pink just makes it look tacky. If she appeared in some game with ten suspects, I'd just be mildly bemused by her. But the fact they put her alongside the classics... y'all've messed up, Hasbro.
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