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New Clue app for iOS
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrGreenJeans wrote:
Quote:

Is a forum member game as simple as setting up a game and giving everyone the private game code?


i believe so! You're correct that time zones will be a challenge. However, I hope we can figure out a time or way to make it work.

For example, I'm free tonight! (CST time zone)


As it turns out, by clinking "Watch this topic for replies" at the bottom of the page, ANYTIME someone posts a reply, you will receive a notification.

So, we can create a dedicated thread to multi-player games, as long as well all use it carefully. In other words, if someone only uses it to post a game request with hours they are available to play, with a game code, then everyone subscribed to the post will receive notification, with no further need to publicly reply. If available, simply sign into the game at the appointed time with the code, and play.

In fact, I'll set it up.
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeonardoMyst wrote:


2. It sometimes takes a long time to get a six-player game started. I imagine part of this is because it's attempting to match up by mansion. And the more locations added to the game will only fracture the player base even more. I only have the first two mansions and I'm limited to playing with them in multiplayer.
I think an idea that could help is to have a themed week, where all multiplayer games take place in a set mansion that changes out at the first of the week.
Either that, or have it selected randomly.


Are you kidding me!? How would that even work it the host is using the Winter theme with the Hot Tub, but you don't have a hot tub on yours?
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LeonardoMyst
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murder by Death wrote:
Are you kidding me!? How would that even work it the host is using the Winter theme with the Hot Tub, but you don't have a hot tub on yours?


When I go to join multiplayer, I have to select a location and only have the two mansiona I own available.
So if anyone's playing the winter lodge, I simply can't play with them.

On the bright side, un-owned characters can still appear as my opponents. Which brings a bit more variation to the game for me as I only have the first two sets and it's nice to see Brunette, Azure and Peach.

It appears that players that choose Winter Lodge are only matched up with other players that have purchased it and have also selected to play there.
Which could possibly shrink the player pool, especially for newer locations.
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeonardoMyst wrote:
Murder by Death wrote:
Are you kidding me!? How would that even work it the host is using the Winter theme with the Hot Tub, but you don't have a hot tub on yours?


When I go to join multiplayer, I have to select a location and only have the two mansiona I own available.
So if anyone's playing the winter lodge, I simply can't play with them.

On the bright side, un-owned characters can still appear as my opponents. Which brings a bit more variation to the game for me as I only have the first two sets and it's nice to see Brunette, Azure and Peach.

It appears that players that choose Winter Lodge are only matched up with other players that have purchased it and have also selected to play there.
Which could possibly shrink the player pool, especially for newer locations.


Oh I see. That's really too bad. I suppose on the one hand it encourages more purchases, but on the other it definitely limits the pool. It seems to me that in the same way you get to see the characters you don't own, you should be able to see the locations you don't own. In other words, all of the characters and locations are downloaded to your phone, just not unlocked until you buy them, unless you join a game that happens to be using them. That's got to be happening at least with the characters.

I would think that would also encourage more purchases since players can "demo" the games that way. Maybe limit it to online games only, and not private games assuming players have some control over those and could buy one set of locations to share with their friends. The online games would otherwise be completely random, and players could presumably not opt to play only games with locations they don't have. Unless it does show you games you can't join because you don't own the proper locations, thereby becoming an active marketing tool to encourage purchases?

This also means that private forum games we might play around here, need to stick to the basic game locations, and/or specify the location they intend to use. We'd probably need a forum thread index where we can each list the locations we own, so that game hosts will know what locations are practical to use. It does me no good to use the Winter Lodge, if only one other member here has that. Maybe a poll to keep count anonymously (if one wants) -- except we'll need a new poll for every new location. Let's hope they allow us to play locations we don't have soon instead!
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LeonardoMyst
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think the best option, at least for public multiplayer, is to remove the location selection step and just randomize a location for each game.

And maybe limit the public multiplayer to all but the most recent location (to encourage purchasing) and then have a weekend tournament with a featured location.

Two more issues I'm having with multiplayer-
1. I had a game where a player used Super Suggest and according to my notes the player that revealed a card also had the second, and the suggester likely had the third. After the first card was revealed to the player the game froze up.

2. I've had four or five games in a row fail to even start. Everyone's tagged ready and we just sit there.

I'm tempted to take a break from multiplayer until the next update to give them time to work out the kinks.
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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had great success with 3 player online games. It's the 6 player games which tend to hang interminably, or just refuse to even start.

The biggest issue I've had is sometimes I'm told an opponent can show me a card...and I never see it! The game hangs up, then it progresses through any remaining opponents (leaving the X or V if they can or can't show a card), and tosses up the Continue button.

That wouldn't be an issue IF my notepad would update itself with the info I didn't get to see. This has happened about 5 times now, and ALWAYS feels like a wasted turn.

I agree for forum member games, we should probably stick to the basic Tudor Mansion board. I own all the themes, but I know not all of us have been so enthusiastic about investing $7 every time a new theme is released.

The idea of Marmalade letting players demo a board in Multiplayer is great in theory...but I've read enough reviews in the App Store and Play Store whining about the prices to know such a feature would do NOTHING for their sales.

The problem is the system they're using for setting up games. More sophisticated games offer up a lobby where players can filter "tables" by any expansions/alternate boards being used, and then they choose which "table" to play at. Marmalade uses a very limited system (same for Game of Life) which randomly seats players at open "tables" once enough people using the same board request to join a game. I once waited about 3 minutes to be matched up with 5 people playing on the Classic Mansion.

Marmalade is unlikely to ever change the way public MP games are organised, but at least private games are an option.
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Mrs P
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I've lurked on the forum before but never actually got round to joining. I'm also playing on the app.

I'm not sure the different locations/mansions are necessarily an issue. Presumably the technology would allow each player to use different locations within their own game as the layout and notepad would be the same. So I could be playing the Vampire mansion whilst others are using the Classic version and so on.

That's only a theory - but it was taking a long time this morning to find me a 6 player Snowy Peaks game, so I changed it to Classic thinking that would be quicker, and it was still the same. Does that make sense?

I'm pretty happy with the app. Although I've had a few times where it just hangs waiting for someone to make a suggestion and I have to quit.
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrs P wrote:

I'm not sure the different locations/mansions are necessarily an issue. Presumably the technology would allow each player to use different locations within their own game as the layout and notepad would be the same. So I could be playing the Vampire mansion whilst others are using the Classic version and so on.


Welcome!

This was my original thought, until I realized that all of the rooms should probably match up. I supposed you could be using the Winter Lodge, and someone the Classic Mansion, and you'd be shown the corresponding card for the "Hot Tub Room" for instance, whilst the other player sees it as the "Ball room". Then you make the accusation using your rooms, and the corresponding room for each other person's locations would be presented to them.

In theory that might work, as long as the players are not otherwise in communication with each other -- it would get very confusing if a player referenced the Hot Tub Room, when no one else was using that location. However, if multi-players don't have any communication outside of the game interface, then you're right, it might work. As long as all the rooms line up with the rooms of other themes, then it's just a matter of changing the name and artwork for each individual player, but the position on the board is otherwise the same. That could even work for different weapon sets, if that option is eventually offered.

I haven't played a multi-player game yet, so I don't know whether this would cause confusion in an anonymous random online game. Certainly it could be a problem in a private, invited play game, where the participants know each other and could carry on a conversation during the game via text or voice, or even in the same room.

Plus, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for a landscape option, and a master board game for streaming TV apps for group play in the same room, in which case, all players will have to use the same location to avoid confusion.
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LeonardoMyst
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murder by Death wrote:
Mrs P wrote:

I'm not sure the different locations/mansions are necessarily an issue. Presumably the technology would allow each player to use different locations within their own game as the layout and notepad would be the same. So I could be playing the Vampire mansion whilst others are using the Classic version and so on.


Welcome!

This was my original thought, until I realized that all of the rooms should probably match up. I supposed you could be using the Winter Lodge, and someone the Classic Mansion, and you'd be shown the corresponding card for the "Hot Tub Room" for instance, whilst the other player sees it as the "Ball room". Then you make the accusation using your rooms, and the corresponding room for each other person's locations would be presented to them.

In theory that might work, as long as the players are not otherwise in communication with each other -- it would get very confusing if a player referenced the Hot Tub Room, when no one else was using that location. However, if multi-players don't have any communication outside of the game interface, then you're right, it might work. As long as all the rooms line up with the rooms of other themes, then it's just a matter of changing the name and artwork for each individual player, but the position on the board is otherwise the same. That could even work for different weapon sets, if that option is eventually offered.

I haven't played a multi-player game yet, so I don't know whether this would cause confusion in an anonymous random online game. Certainly it could be a problem in a private, invited play game, where the participants know each other and could carry on a conversation during the game via text or voice, or even in the same room.

Plus, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for a landscape option, and a master board game for streaming TV apps for group play in the same room, in which case, all players will have to use the same location to avoid confusion.


True.
That could work if they use a variable system.
Since all the rooms are basically in the same spots with no change in distance traveled in turns.

And when I suggest Ballroom, the computer associates that with 'Room A', which could be named differently if someone's playing a different board.
Sort of like an immediate translator.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the board were a non issue, the multiplayer games would start a LOT faster. I'm 95% certain the long wait times are primarily due to waiting for the server to find 2-5 other people who want to play the same board. The app is already working overtime to generate the right suspect art every time, I can't imagine it's also got to waste resources on generating different visual configurations for each player.

I've found I can almost always get either size of game started quickly if I stick to Tudor Mansion. It's easy to spot the basic players, because they only cycle through the standard 6 suspects for their playing pieces. If I'm adamant about using a themed board, I just have to wait, depending on the time of day. It seems hardly anyone wants to use the Vampire Castle board this time of year, so I've been using the Snowy Peaks & Classic boards more often than anything else.

Between 03:00-07:00 EST, I can nearly play games back to back with little wait times. I imagine most of my opponents then are in very different time zones, lol. I can also get 2-3 games knocked out after 20:00 EST, but by 22:00 things start to slow down.

I wish they'd let us pre register for games. Meaning, tell the game when you'd like to play, then receive a notification at that time if/when other players have signed up for a game. If you can't play for some reason, the app could just pop an AI player into your spot.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:

I wish they'd let us pre register for games. Meaning, tell the game when you'd like to play, then receive a notification at that time if/when other players have signed up for a game. If you can't play for some reason, the app could just pop an AI player into your spot.


Does the game allow for an AI in online anonymous multiplayer games? In other words could only two people play a game with a third AI? Or does it require a minimum of three real people?
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LeonardoMyst
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murder by Death wrote:
alwaysPeacock wrote:

I wish they'd let us pre register for games. Meaning, tell the game when you'd like to play, then receive a notification at that time if/when other players have signed up for a game. If you can't play for some reason, the app could just pop an AI player into your spot.


Does the game allow for an AI in online anonymous multiplayer games? In other words could only two people play a game with a third AI? Or does it require a minimum of three real people?


It requires real players.
I'm assuming an AI would take over if a player quit, but I'm not certain as there would really be no way of knowing.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also wondered that. I'd hope an AI would take over as it would be frustrating having to abandon a game if a player left. I'm enjoying playing the app but I have sent a few suggestions to Marmalade Studios for further updates.

I do occasionally find the game freezes on the first "Tap when ready" screen and I have to leave and return to the 'lobby'. I assume this is because one or more of the other players does not respond so I've suggested limiting the time here and ejecting players who do not respond after a certain time period.

I've also asked them to update the "Classic" playing pieces so that the system doesn't just use the regular characters.

Finally, I would find it useful to have the option of 'manually' scoring out a card. For instance if you narrow it down so that you know 2 other players both have, for example, White and the wrench. You may not know which one has which but you can still effectively eliminate both options. Perhaps if you tap the name a second time, instead of circling the suggestion, it could cross it out.

I'm not sure about the 'hint' cards. I'd rather everyone just played on a level playing field - but I suppose they have to make more money somehow!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Android version received an update yesterday afternoon/evening. I assume the iOS version has been updated, too (I haven't used that one for a while since the game plays better on my table than it does on my phone). The multiplayer games seem to match up a LOT faster now. And we now have this lovely, Hasbro inspired, waiting screen:



Fun fact: I figured out how to run the app as Cluedo on Android (change the system's primary language to English UK), but that graphic seems to display "Mr. Boddy" in both Clue and Cluedo.

I do wish we could have different loading screens depending on which board we're waiting to play on, but I can understand why they've chosen to just use one, especially since the app is already fairly large (and bound to just get bigger as more content is added).

I played 3 6-player games early this morning with no issues at all (except a couple of baffling suggestion choices from some, probably newbie, opponents). I've seen some reviews bemoaning the private multiplayer games rejecting the join code as invalid, but I haven't yet had a chance to test drive that feature myself.

I second the call for updated playing pieces. They proved early on they could customize them to match the card art when they made 2 versions of Mrs. White. Now the Vampire Castle & Snowy Peaks have their own playing pieces...but Hollywood and Classic suspects are left with the standard token graphics (unless you're Mrs. White). To be fair, the Vampire Castle tokens looked really cool...but the Snowy Peaks tokens seem a bit rough to me. The viewing angle makes most of them just look like geometric blobs, thanks to all the padding most of those suspects are wearing.

I'll admit: I've used about 7 hint cards since the new multiplayer launched. Initially it was just to test them out, but I have to say the Move card is really useful when the dice spit out a 2, or my roll isn't enough to get to a room I actually need/want to go to. I'd rather "cheat" then waste a turn standing in the corridor. Judge me.

And the Reveal card was useful in a 3 player game that was taking FOREVER. I knew I only needed to see one more card from an opponent, and when the 3rd player made a suggestion & saw a card, I knew that card had to be the one left I needed to have seen all of that opponent's hand. So...I used the hint.

Super Suggestion is the only one that's not anything special, IMO. I've yet to win a game because of a well timed Super Suggestion, nor have I encountered a situation when I've felt I needed/wanted to use the feature.

Does anyone else find the inconsistent naming/labeling of the suspects a bit annoying? It was fine when the Hollywood and Vampire versions were just Plum, Mustard, etc. Now the Snowy Peaks suspects have the classic Mr/Colonel/Mrs/Miss/etc labels again. The Hollywood suspects are already referred to as Prof/Dr/Colonel/etc on the movie posters decorating the studio walls, so... I dunno, it just irks me a bit when the multiplayer games assemble the suspects and I've got one or two on the list just denoted by their last name.
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@alwaysPeacock -- I think you make a good point about an eventual update to correct some things like playing pieces and suspect names. It's almost as if they intended to keep the names consistent between games, just using last names, but then realized it wasn't necessary.

But you make me wonder about Cluedo vs. Clue games. Are you restricted to just Clue branded boards, meaning you're only playing North American players, or are you able to participate in Cluedo games? I suppose the only way you'd really know is if a player was using Reverend Green, since the game graphics could just be easily substituted with the Clue versions without really changing anything.

Seems like they'd want to open this up to the worldwide pool of players to have as many people available as possible ... Then again, you'd think they wouldn't limit the pool by restricting the player pool to just the boards owned, especially when the same technology they're already using can be transparently applied to allow a player to use any theme with any other theme.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murder by Death wrote:
But you make me wonder about Cluedo vs. Clue games. Are you restricted to just Clue branded boards, meaning you're only playing North American players, or are you able to participate in Cluedo games? I suppose the only way you'd really know is if a player was using Reverend Green, since the game graphics could just be easily substituted with the Clue versions without really changing anything.


Interesting question. And I'm not sure if I know the answer. When I run the app as Cluedo, obviously I see Rev. Green graphics and text. I actually haven't had any human opponents play as Green. Generally, the Snowy Peaks version of him is selected as a suspect, and that version is Mr. Green regardless of locale.

I guess I'd have to switch my device language again & play Clue for a while until I could see if any opponents popped up as Rev. Green.

I don't believe I'm limited to just US/UK opponents when I run the app as Clue/Cluedo, though. I'm usually playing when most people in the US are/should be dead asleep, and it seems it would be very limiting to just link players in the same country.

The easiest way to figure this out world be a forum member game between both Clue and Cluedo players. But that's also going to be the most difficult to schedule.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked Marmalade directly about how the matching worked & the Mr/Rev. Green conundrum. Response:

Quote:
Players are matched up based on whomever is searching for a game at the same time as you (so they aren't locked by region.) If you're playing as Reverend Green in the UK, a USA opponent should see Mr Green instead.


So it would seem they are capable of displaying different graphics to different players, in regards to Green. In theory, I suppose they could do what's been suggested here re: letting people play whatever board they want. But I really think that would stretch their systems a bit too far, so I'm not bothered. If it seems nobody is looking to play on one board, I'll just pick another.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
I asked Marmalade directly about how the matching worked & the Mr/Rev. Green conundrum. Response:

Quote:
Players are matched up based on whomever is searching for a game at the same time as you (so they aren't locked by region.) If you're playing as Reverend Green in the UK, a USA opponent should see Mr Green instead.


So it would seem they are capable of displaying different graphics to different players, in regards to Green. In theory, I suppose they could do what's been suggested here re: letting people play whatever board they want. But I really think that would stretch their systems a bit too far, so I'm not bothered. If it seems nobody is looking to play on one board, I'll just pick another.


If it can do green, then it's not so much about what their servers can support than the coding to do it. My guess is it's coming at some point. Anybody can play any game regardless of characters and board (and hopefully weapons). Given the logistics of multi-play in general, they'd want to have as few complications as possible. Keep in mind, it's not just green, but the foreign name of every character in every language players can participate in multiplayer games. You're going to see Miss Scarlett instead of SeƱorita Scarlotta for instance. Green just so happens to have the different graphics as well. So as long as the board locations and rooms line up, that shouldn't be a problem to eventually address. If you own the same game, it will match you, otherwise it lets you select the game skin you want to use.

The only reason this wouldn't make sense is if Marmalade intends to come out with a player chat feature. Of course that creates not only the problem of handling different boards, but language barriers as well. Hard to chat, even with a translator, if you don't speak the language of the other players. Does Marmalade support player chat in any of its other games? I would think the play timers would make chatting problematic as well. Maybe between turns?

Do we know yet what happens when somebody drops out of a multiplayer game? The timers would time hem out, but if a 3 player drops to two, then he game is essentially over, no?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

During a recent 3 player game, one of my opponents made a false accusation. They were disqualified from the game, and the two of us remaining alternated turns until one of us won. Annoyingly, the disqualified player ended their last turn on the space just outside the Lounge, blocking the door with an immobile pawn until that suspect was named in a suggestion.

Later, I made a false accusation in a different game. I was given the option to leave, or to keep watching the other two play to the end. I chose to watch, and still interacted when I could disprove suggestions (my Continue button disappeared, since I wasn't going to need time anymore for note taking. Considering I could have left, it would seem to me the AI in the game is perfectly capable of taking over for a player who chooses to quit a game early on. Does it? No idea.

As for chat: Marmalade's The Game of Life has a very limited, emoji based "chat" for online games. You can send a smile, laugh, wow face, angry face... things like that. They offer 6 in the base game, and you get themed ones with each new board theme pack you buy. If you want to react to an opponent's turn, you tap a chat bubble, pick the emoji, and it appears hovering over your avatar for all to see for about 3 seconds.

It's limited, sure, but probably smart in a game that's likely to attract players in a WIDE age range. Clue(do) seems to have a mostly older pool of players, but even so, it's smart for Marmalade to avoid potential controversy by limiting exactly how much communication players can have with each other.

I've never considered Clue to be a very social game. Moreso, most of it is thinking & planning & eliminating secretly, speaking when necessary. I'm not too bothered by the mobile game not having any chat option.
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