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New Detetive
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Black
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a shotgun not a blunderbuss.
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Adam106
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, I'm just saying...
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man they got it going on down in Brazil. The new Detetive has 8 suspects, cool new weapons, and great artwork.

http://sp.olx.com.br/regiao-de-bauru-e-marilia/bebes-e-criancas/jogo-de-tabuleiro-detetive-estrela-perfeito-estado-363264915




There's even a 3D edition! I'd love to know how that works ... I may have to pick one of these up when I go to Brasil...

https://www.brinquedosdavila.com.br/loja-de-brinquedos-educativos/jogos-tabuleiros/jogo-detetive-3d-estrela/

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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welp. Time to reach out to my extended family again & see if anyone can get me these new editions. They look fantastic. Love the box for the standard version.
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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the game got a companion mobile app in 2015, though it may/may not completely work with the latest edition. Pity, because going by the rough translation below, it seems to be everything one would want in a Clue(do) companion: optional gameplay enhancements, and most importantly, a digital notebook:

Quote:
DETECTIVE, the famous Star of board game features a new gaming experience with the mobile assistance or tablet, making the game even more dynamic and enigmatic. Take your phone or tablet, write down your suspicions and show that you are the best detective!
To unravel the mystery of Mr. Carlos Fortuna murder, players will have to give hints about the place, gun and responsible for this crime. Each round participants will be able to eliminate at least a possibility, until finally will remain very few letters and you can make the charge. One who can hit, wins the game.
To give even more reality to the game, imagine receive calls, messages and videos of witnesses on the phone or tablet, giving clues and hints about the murder. But beware, not all the witnesses will take you straight to the killer!
In total there are 8 characters, 8 weapons and 11 locations.

»GAME MODE: TRAY

In this mode the phone or tablet works as a complement of the board, helping with tips.
Early in the game, you must choose 3-8 characters available in the game. They are: SERGEANT MUSTACHE, Lord MARINE, MISS ROSE, SERGIO gloomy, WHITE DONA, TONY GOURMET, DONA VIOLET and JAMES BUTLER.

They are randomly chosen three cards from the deck. These letters will be scanned by the game application using the QR CODE. Such letters - an ASSASSIN, a GUN and LOCAL - show, respectively, the identity of the killer, the object used in the crime and where the murder occurred.
STAY TUNED! While you play with the tray, mobile phone or tablet can touch and an anonymous witness can give a hint to one of the participants of the game. In addition to bonds *, participants can also receive text messages and videos.

* The calling function Voice is only available in the mobile.

»GAME MODE: NOTES BLOCK

Pen and paper is DETECTIVES thing of the past! You can use the device (phone or tablet) to write down the suspects, weapons and locations, using only the touch of a finger, so get faster in solving the crime.

»NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS: 3-8 players.

"FEATURES:

• Application FREE
• Easy to play, hard to stop!
• Your favorite board game now for phones and tablets!
• QR Code System
• You need internet to play
• Fun for the whole family!
• Age rating: Free


Google Play link

Advert on YouTube

Advert for 3D version

EDIT:

Actually, the version with the optional mobile enhancements might be the current edition. A quick search on Estrela's website shows not only that edition, but also a card game, the 3D game, two junior versions, and what appears to be a puzzle and a memory game under the junior branding: official site. Google translate offers a little more insight into these editions.

At the current conversion rates, the standard Detetive with the mobile app options sells for roughly $31.76 USD; the 3D version is roughly $33.35 USD. Not exactly cheap, but interesting that their deluxe option is only a few dollars more than their standard version.
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the mobile phone edition, and intentionally didn't post that one. It reminds me of Secrets and Spies, which eventually shut down the mobile component. It's hard to imagine any manufacturer supporting a web component in perpetuity. And now that I read the interaction, I'm even less enthused by the gimmick -- scanning QR codes is just a pain, there's a reason why that technology has never really taken off. I'll give it points for trying, but I still don't see this mobile phone feature as a compelling reason to buy the edition.

That said, if they figure out how to incorporate an electronic component into a game that actually allows the AI to control the setup of the game, such that players can uncover real clues and motivations of characters to employ true deductive reasoning, they might have something, but this approach doesn't really seem to be it.
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Translation of the Instructions for the Mobile App Edition from the Estrela site:

http://estrela.vtexcrm.com.br/DynamicForm/GetFile?dataEntityInstanceId=CM-e56b155b-5cea-11e7-9538-0a545b4acb20&fileName=Manual-Detetive-com-App.pdf

Quote:
Remember that you can also go from one room to another without playing the dice, using the secret passages.
You say!

- You can bluff and disrupt the investigations of the other detectives, suggesting letters that are with you.
- If you suspect another player is close to the solution, you can remove him from the crime scene by saying at his guess that he is the suspect. So his pawn will have to go to the room where you made the guess.

WRITE ALL ABOUT YOUR RESEARCH.

In your notes block you have written all the characters, weapons and locations of the city. As you discover who is NOT involved in the crime, that is, every guess you give and someone has a card, you mark on the block. In the end, when you have not marked only one character, one weapon, and one crime scene, this could be the crime solving.
Attention! If you are a born detective, you can find out who the murderer is before you eliminate all the suspects in your notepad. Take chances with your hunches.
RESOLVING THE CRIME.
Finding out who and what, with what weapon and where he killed Mr. Fortuna, made his accusation. But ATENC; Ao, all players will only be able to make an accusation and only play.
In the case of the accusation, you open the envelope and look at the letters, not
NOBODY again as soon as you have these letters. If no one sees you, you will be out of the game. Put but get the letters
Is correct, you won the game and proved that it is a great DETECTIVE!
OPTIONAL RULE: FAST GAME.
If you want to play a faster game, do the following:

1- Remove from the game the letters of the COVEIRO and the LAWYER and the corresponding pieces.
2 - Remove the cards from the two quiver weapons and their respective resisters.
3- The PRAc; A becomes neutral field and can not be accessed. The letter PRAc; A shall be withdrawn.
4 - Mark in the notepad of all players the cards that have been removed from the game. Cards removed may NOT be used in the accusation.
5- Continue the game normally.
In this game option, you can play with up to 6 players.

BA / XE FOR FREE THE APP
RECEIVE THE TESTIMONY TIPS.

ADULT TIP: READ INSTRUCTIONS TO BE FOLLOWED WITH ATENTION AND
- AT THE SAME TIME - PLAYING WITH CHILD
For 3 to 8 players from 8 years of age.
CONTENTS: Board, 27 cards (11 of crime scenes, 8 of characters and 8 of weapons), 8 cards, 8 weapons, notepad, envelope, die and instruction manual.
PREPARING THE GAME
L) Place the peers representing the suspects on the board, following the sequence in the table below:

Even if there are less than 8 players, put all the peoes in the indicated houses, as any of them may be the culprit. After that, the player chooses a piece and receives a note from the notepad.

2) Separate the cards into three mounds: weapons, local and suspect. Shuffle the coda separately and, without anyone looking, remove a letter from the coda and place it in the Super Secret envelope. These cards represent the killer, the weapon you used and the location of the crime. Do not let anyone see the letters in the envelope until the crime is resolved.
3) Collect all the cards, shuffle them and distribute them to the players, giving one to each one. According to the number of players, some teroo more cards than others.

THE INVESTIGATION EAT.
The first player to play will be the player to the left of who chose Mr. Marinho, followed by the player to the left and so on. In this way, Mr. Marinho will always be the last to play, because this game starts the game in Prac, which is in the center of the board.
If no one has chosen Mr. Marinho, play in the die who will be the first to play. If you want to get the highest number you will be the first to play, followed by the player to the left.
In turn, each player must roll the dice and walk with the same number of spaces drawn in the direction of a place of their choice.
9. The first place to be visited on the board may not be the place where the player played the IOQO.
How to walk with your peoo?

Depending on the color of your item, you will have to leave one of the locations.

2- In the same move you can move forward, back and forth, except to return to the space from which you left. Attention: Peoes can not move diagonally!
3. If there is another peoo in the way of yours, deviate using spaces on the sides. Two peoes can not occupy the same space.
4 - When you arrive at the place chosen, you must enter and, in the same move, give a guess.
Sticky notes:

- You can only enter the room if there is no other room in the room. However, inside the room, there may be more than one piece.
- You do not need to take an exact number on the dice to enter the desired location, in case you need to remove it and finish taking 6, you can enter the place and give your guess

normally. The guess should be given in the same round. Board points

White arrow "-The arrows indicate the secret passages, which allow the goers to go to the other part of the board. City Hall, train station, manzao and hospital are places that have secret passages. Each player can use these passages only three times during the game!
INVESTIGATING CRIME.
Being in the possible place of the crime you must give your guess, trying to guess who and the murderer and with what weapon he killed Mr. Carlos Fortuna, and the place will always be the one where you are.
Example: You are in Floriculture.
Hunch: 'I thought it was James Butler, with p6, in flower shop.'
At the same time you give the guess, place the suspect's piece and the gun in the room. In this case, the peoo of James Butler and the p6, in floriculture.
When giving your guess about the crime, the player to your left should look at the cards and see if they have any letters regarding the guess made. If he has he must show only one of the cards he has (even if he has more than one). Write down the chart shown on the notepad. This means that the location, crime or suspect shown is not involved in the crime.
If the player on your left has no cards, the first player on the left who has any cards should show you.
Attention! Whenever you have a card that proves the falsity of the crime you must show it. Otherwise you will disrupt the game and will be disqualified! The disqualified player's cards must be redistributed between the other players.
The foot that was placed in a room because of the guess does not return to the place where it was. And the player that is with this piece can, in turn, give a hint in the same room, without having to leave, nor throw the die. If he does not want to, he rolls the dice and leaves the room normally.

- You can not stay in the same place for two rounds in a row.
- If you want to repeat the room, you have to go out in one round and go back in the other


Last edited by Murder by Death on Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest difference, though, is that Secrets and Spies relied on a limited SMS service for its digital/interactive features. For this Detetive, it's all done through an app. There are no real phone calls/texts that have to be supported/maintained by Estrela and/or the customers' mobile service. Much like the Shuffle card games with optional mobile companions, as long as the app is available, anyone with the correct edition of the game can use it. Or not use it, if they just want the classic gameplay.

And scanning 3 QR codes for the app to know the solution is hardly a pain if a group has already committed to using the digital features. At most it might add 2 minutes to the setup.

It's certainly more compelling than the 3D version. Playing an entire game with those paper glasses on just so the board & card art can pop up? Why? THAT is a gimmick. The standard game with the optional companion app is basically getting two different games for the price of one, and is a great way to appease older players/parents who remember the game from their childhoods, and grab the attention of the younger players who might need a more immersive experience.
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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that those rules recommend what I recently suggested for Clue/Cluedo: play either with all the supplied components, or play the "fast" (classic) game by removing X number of suspects/weapons/rooms. Hasbro ought to take a cue from Estrela next time they update the game, at least in this kind of built in expansion option.
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
The biggest difference, though, is that Secrets and Spies relied on a limited SMS service for its digital/interactive features. For this Detetive, it's all done through an app. There are no real phone calls/texts that have to be supported/maintained by Estrela and/or the customers' mobile service. Much like the Shuffle card games with optional mobile companions, as long as the app is available, anyone with the correct edition of the game can use it. Or not use it, if they just want the classic gameplay.

And scanning 3 QR codes for the app to know the solution is hardly a pain if a group has already committed to using the digital features. At most it might add 2 minutes to the setup.

It's certainly more compelling than the 3D version. Playing an entire game with those paper glasses on just so the board & card art can pop up? Why? THAT is a gimmick. The standard game with the optional companion app is basically getting two different games for the price of one, and is a great way to appease older players/parents who remember the game from their childhoods, and grab the attention of the younger players who might need a more immersive experience.


Everything I've read about in the reviews is that the clues are sent via social media, twitter and Facebook. I'm not sure this is much more than a gimmick. Until I see some indication of exactly what that app is supposed to do, besides send clues that don't really alter traditional gameplay, or require updates, I'm not sure it makes much more sense than Secrets and Spies. The instructions for the game don't even mention play with the app.

Besides, everything Secrets and Spies had could easily be substituted with playing cards, as members have done here. I'd venture to say the same thing could be done for this game as well.

Maybe when we get more information about this app and what it does for the game, then I may change my mind. Until then, it's as much a gimmick as the 3D glasses, though a less interesting one to me since mobile devices seem to only serve to draw people into their phones rather than group participation in a communal experience which is the board game.

Here's the translation from the sioux.com site:

Quote:
The Estrela famous board game has a new gaming experience with the support of smartphone or tablet, making the game even more dynamic and enigmatic. Take your smartphone or tablet, write down your thoughts and show that you are the best detective!
To give even more reality to the game, the * app lets you receive calls, messages and videos of witnesses on the phone or tablet, giving clues and hints about the murder. The application also has a notepad to mark the suspect and find the real killer.
To unravel the mystery of Mr. Carlos Fortuna murder, players will have to make guesses about the location, gun and responsible for this crime. Each round participants will be able to eliminate at least one possibility, until it will finally remain very few letters and you can make the charge. The one who hits, wins the game.

In total there are 8 characters, 8 weapons and 11 locations and hours of fun!

The application works as a complement of the board game "Detetive."


It seems more like an electronic notepad than anything.

The iTunes site has a bit more detail on it:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fitunes.apple.com%2Fbr%2Fapp%2Fdetetive%2Fid971804654%3Fmt%3D8&edit-text=&act=url

Quote:
Description

DETECTIVE, the famous board game from Estrela presents a new gaming experience with the aid of a mobile phone or tablet, making the game even more dynamic and enigmatic. Grab your cell phone or tablet, write down your suspicions and show that you are the best detective!
To unravel the mystery of the assassination of Mr. Carlos Fortuna, players will have to make guesses about the location, weapon and the person responsible for this crime. With each round the participants will be able to eliminate at least one possibility, until finally it will be possible to make the accusation. The one who succeeds wins the game, but if he misses the guess, the player will be out of the game.
To make the game even more real, imagine receiving calls, messages and witness videos on your phone or tablet, giving clues and tips about the murder. But beware, not all witnesses will lead you straight to the killer!
In total there are 8 characters, 8 weapons and 11 locations.

»GAME MODE: TIPS
In this mode the phone or tablet works as a complement, helping with tips.
At the beginning of the game, you have to choose between 3 and 8 characters available in the game. They are: SERGEANT MUSTACHE, MR. MARINE, MISS ROSA, SERGIO SOTURNO, DONA BRANCA, TONY GOURMET, DONA VIOLETA and BUTLER JAMES.

STAY TUNED! While you play the phone or tablet can play and an anonymous witness can give a tip to one of the participants of the game. In addition to links, participants can also receive text messages and videos.

»GAME MODE: NOTES BLOCK
Use your device as a notebook to mark clues and suspicions.
Paper and pen is DETECTIVES thing of the past! You can use the device (cell phone or tablet) to jot down suspects, arma, and places using just the touch of your fingers, so you get faster in solving the crime.

»NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS: from 3 to 8 players.

" CHARACTERISTICS:
• FREE application!
• Easy to play, hard to stop!
• Your favorite board game now complete with mobile phones and tablets!
• No internet required to play
• Fun for the whole family!
• Age rating: Free


And the iTunes reviews are interesting as well:

Quote:
Some make sense, but many others are contradictory and do not match the outcome of the game. Dai, the tips instead of helping, make you go wrong, because many of them are mistaken!
We started to play without this App so as not to disturb the game.
Either they fix this error, or you can not use the App!

It makes the game much more dynamic, we can often solve faster with the tips by phone calls or put messages. My daughter loved it as did the whole family.

The application is cool and easier than the paper, but you could open a combo to make manual notes, as we have the strategy to note who showed "x" letter. So we ended up giving up the app and going back to the paper. Hopefully they'll get an upgrade with that. It would be 1000 note.


In some respects it seems like the Maramalade app in that it offers Hint Cards, in the form of clues, which of course helps the game play faster. If that's all it is, as I suspected, then it really is a gimmick, though a more useful one than 3D glasses, which I see as more of a novelty that will entertain the young kids. This app seems to just frustrate some people.


Last edited by Murder by Death on Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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alwaysPeacock
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know where you're getting the social media stuff, because it's not mentioned in any reviews I've read. That being said: yes, it's a gimmick. It's a better gimmick than a red-blue 3D treatment. It's also entirely optional, and really shouldn't have any bearing on how one perceives the game, especially since the edition which supports the mobile features is currently the primary edition available in the country.

You can't download the companion app outside of Brazil, so it's a moot point for international collectors. For us, it's a Brazilian Clue with useless QR codes on the cards.

Also, if I'm interpreting the rules booklet correctly, it seems each suspect begins in a designated room. That's an interesting solution, instead of using a central start or designated starts around the perimeter.

And mobile companion apps for board games are more common than you'd think, especially for higher-end designer games. They don't demand any more attention than another deck or two of cards would, and in many cases they make the whole thing more immersive. The future is digital, including tabletop gaming.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
I don't know where you're getting the social media stuff, because it's not mentioned in any reviews I've read. That being said: yes, it's a gimmick. It's a better gimmick than a red-blue 3D treatment. It's also entirely optional, and really shouldn't have any bearing on how one perceives the game, especially since the edition which supports the mobile features is currently the primary edition available in the country.

You can't download the companion app outside of Brazil, so it's a moot point for international collectors. For us, it's a Brazilian Clue with useless QR codes on the cards.

Also, if I'm interpreting the rules booklet correctly, it seems each suspect begins in a designated room. That's an interesting solution, instead of using a central start or designated starts around the perimeter.

And mobile companion apps for board games are more common than you'd think, especially for higher-end designer games. They don't demand any more attention than another deck or two of cards would, and in many cases they make the whole thing more immersive. The future is digital, including tabletop gaming.


Look I don't disagree with you, but I'm not really interested in digital apps unless they do something integral for the game. When they come out with something truly innovative, and not just an electronic detective notebook with hints (read "cheats") that speed up the game, then they'll have something. Yes digital is the future, but right now it seems like these game companies don't have a clue how to capitalize on it.

As for the social media angle, here's the source I found for that:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fppagina.com%2Fdescubra-o-investigador-que-existe-em-voce-com-o-aplicativo-do-novo-detetive-3048&edit-text=&act=url

Specifically this passage:

Quote:
Through actions on social networks and Rihappy stores the player will have an idea of ​​how the application can interact with the game and make the experience even more fun and realistic. Clues will be released in real time by Twitter and teasers of the promotion will appear on Facebook....the activation strategy will be through QR Codes, which will be spread in Rihappy stores in various parts of the country. Extra tips will also be posted on social networks and will help researchers unravel the mystery.


In re-reading, it appears to be a promotion to raise awareness for the game.

Again, I don't know exactly what this app does, but it essentially has to be prepared to offer clues for up to 704 different solutions. That's an extraordinary amount of programming. I'd love to know exactly the extent of the clues it's offering. Secrets and Spies only had about 50 different messages. But this app purports to have calls, messages and videos, of a suitable number to reflect 704 different solutions. Even a dozen standard clues per game would translate into the thousands of customized materials. Again, this isn't much more than a customized variant of general hint cards included with the current Clue/do games, which instruct others to show you what's in their hands. I'd much prefer that kind of human interaction than my phone texting me during the game. And how does one watch a video, assuming it has audio, without other players overhearing?

By the way, the Detetive App is available on my Apple App Store in the USA. It's in Portuguese, so that's a problem, but once I obtain the game, it should be playable once translated, and we'll see what all the fuss is about. Actually, all we need are 3 QR codes from any of the cards to play a sample game.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I downloaded the Detetive App for my iPhone and iPad, and I think I have the low-down on how this thing is supposed to work for the game.

It has two modes, either as an electronic Detective Notebook, in which case each player uses their own phone or tablet, and/or as an electronic game expansion.

It's this latter feature we're concerned with. Evidently the game intends one players phone or tablet be used as the primary device with which to set up the electronic expansion of the game. This means if all players intend to use their own phones or tablets to keep track of their notes, there will need to be an additional dedicated expansion device used by the group. Not that uncommon a situation, as I have both a tablet and a phone, so not a big deal. Worst case, there are paper notepads included with the game for traditional play as well. But, the same device cannot be used to keep track of clues, and serve as the gameplay expansion.

So how does this expansion app work then? Well once the game is set up and the playing cards are sorted, the players specify the suspects who will be participating in the game, then there are two ways to set up the app:

1) scan the QR Codes, which is actually pretty straight forward, as one simply selects the camera, points it at the card back and the proper category is automatically logged in the app. Repeat the process for each of the three categories, and the app will only allow one card for each category. The only problem with this is that if the cards aren't correctly sorted, the app will automatically replace a previously scanned card in the same category with a new one, until you get one card from each category. On that front it's easy to see if you've made a mistake since it won't let you continue without three different categories scanned.

2) For those who do not have the QR Codes on cards, or a copy of the game, or simply can't get the QR scanner to work properly, the Murder cards can be entered manually. So, you can have someone not participating in the game (since they will know the final solution), set it up for you. So basically anyone can use the app. In my case, I scanned 3 QR Codes I found on the internet. And I also set up a game, so I knew the solution and could see how solving the game worked.

These are the three I used -- click on the picture full a full-sized copy to try with your own app.


Once the three cards are specified, the game launches into action. Unfortunately, this is where it's clearly a gimmick and not truly tied to play.

During gameplay, the rooms are shown as if through a security camera surveillance monitor, which shifts rooms with an annoying sound of static. The volume must be left up as the app will randomly alert the players during the game. The rooms are apparently selected at random, and don't seem to have anything to do with the solution, or offer any clues themselves. It's just a thing that keeps the app active between notifications, which again, are not tied to anything having to do with the actual traditional board game play. For instance:

1) The first way notifications are received is the "phone" will ring with an anonymous call, and the app will specify that it is for a specific player. That player then picks up the community phone, and answers the call, whereby they receive a message intended solely for that player. Since I don't speak Portuguese, I can't really speak to the information imparted, but I assume it's similar to the text messages communicated similarly. The odd thing is that the player has the option of dismissing the call before its been heard, and there is no mechanism to replay the message in the event it was not clearly heard. There are apps that might be able to translate the audio recordings, so if one does not speak Portuguese, this could still be usable. EDIT: yes, the free app Speak & Translate works perfectly to translate the phone calls!

2) The second way the app imparts information is by a "text" alert. Again, it's an anonymous tip to a specific player, who then accepts the text (or is able to dismiss it for some reason), and reads the contents. Here's an example of one: "My family went to pay tribute to our aunt-in-law at the cemetery, right at the time of the murder. Nothing strange happened." Here's another: "I was paying my bills in the bank and I assure you nothing happened." Obviously, these messages are essentially meaningless in the context of a typical Clue game (which this is). That said, in both cases they do seem to be ruling out locations from the final solution. In that respect, they essentially act as "hint" cards in the current Clue games. These clues just happen to be derived from the final solution rather than having the player deduct them for themselves. EDIT: the free app Scan&Translate works perfectly to translate the text without typing it in! Essentially it scans a screenshot, performs OCR on any text and translates it to the requested language.

3) The third way the app gives hints is in the form of fake videos. I say fake, because they are basically still artwork of a figure in shadow with a flashing "REC" light in the corner. These are meant for everyone at the same time. Here's an example of one "video", in which the text is also included with the audio voice recording (unlike the phone calls): "At the time of the crime, was buying flowers with Dona Branca". Again this appears to be eliminating Dona Branca from the final solution. And once again, this is similar to results achieved through a "hint" card in a traditional game.

EDIT: I just played the app on my iPad which obviously doesn't have a "private" speaker option. As a result the iPad version never gave any telephone clues. This leads me to believe that the method of delivery has nothing to do with the clues, but yet another gimmick to "enhance" play. The information is the same no matter the novelty of delivery.

Essentially, this goes on at random, cycling through the "surveillance videos" until the next random notification arrives. The speed at which these clues can be set in the settings, but regardless, they're kind of annoying. Whereas in a traditional game using a set of "hint" cards, where players obtain their clues in an orderly fashion as gameplay proceeds, these notifications interrupt the game randomly, with no rhyme or reason, and continue sounding the alert until they are acknowledged. This forces the gameplay to stop mid-action to deal with whatever the alert is, which could be a private message for any of 3 to 8 players, or a group message for all. I can't imagine a game with 8 players with this thing going off constantly. I'd have to see more of these tips to get a better idea, but the advertising for the app does suggest that some clues could be misleading. If so, what's the point of that? Unless there's a way to discredit the clue somehow, and even if that method is by actually seeing a conflicting card shown during an accusation -- how confusing would that be?

The app does add one final twist to the game that a traditional game does not provide -- it gives each player 3 attempts to solve the murder, or make final accusations, at any time. So, without revealing the cards, the app knows the solution and simply informs the player they are wrong. Theoretically, a player could narrow down their guess to a few options, and have three tries to solve the case. Frankly, this is not an option I'd be interested in having, due to the fact that a player does not have to have a complete idea of the solution before solving the case.

And that's all this app does. It's an electronic version of the "hint" cards included with the new games and Marmalade app. They offer no special insight, much less coordination with the gameplay. The "hints" are general, and randomly assigned to the players, since the cards held by a player are not likewise scanned into the app, thus they can't be customized for each player. So I'm back to this being a gimmick. And kind of a convoluted one as well. While the 3D glasses are clearly a gimmick, they're fun, especially for younger players, and they can be taken out of the game at any time without changing anything. The expansion app just seems intrusive and annoying, not to mention requiring a somewhat clumsy additional setup, on a dedicated device shared by everyone, in addition to any devices players may want to use to keep track of the game paperless. While I can see it initially being kind of exciting, not knowing when the next clue will arrive or for whom, I can only see it getting tiresome very quickly. It certainly did for me as it sat on my desk while I was doing other things. Moreover, removing it from the game, also removes part of the game mechanics -- it's like starting a game with the "Clue cards" and acting on them following the appropriate dice roll, then abandoning them mid-way during the game. And of course, as I've said many times before, I think these "hint" cards are kind of cheating. They aren't really so much clues as giving players an advantage without actually working for it.

And theoretically, one does not even need the physical game to play a game on this app. If my suspicions are correct, the app will continue giving new clues until someone solves the case. If so, one merely need to wait until enough clues are given to deduce the solution. That's basically 24 clues, assuming each one is different, and none are repeated for different players.

In principle I like this concept. In practice it's not much better than Secrets and Spies as I originally surmised. As @alwaysPeacock correctly pointed out, this app solves the problem of having to maintain a text server, and any related texting costs. However, it creates other problems. And while there's no text server that has to be maintained, there's no guarantee the app will be updated over time. At some point, the developer could stop updating it to work with the latest hardware, which means it will be just as useless as Secrets and Spies texting component, unless one keeps a dedicated device with the game that is capable of supporting the app, and that device remains in working order for the life of the game. Of course, like Secrets and Spies, this would all be rendered moot if a set of physical playing cards with essentially the same kind of "hints" were included with the game. Basically the current version of Clue/do with the optional "Clue" cards, where such an app would simply replace them during gameplay. In fact that would be preferable since they could be activated when the dice dictated it, rather than waiting for a random interruption during the game. Granted the novelty of having little narratives communicated is lost with a card that simply instructs another player to show a particular card. Then again, such a card also engages the other players whereas a private message does not.

The problem here is, no one has really developed an app that can actually be used to uncover clues in order to truly expand Clue/do beyond a simple deduction game. The power of programming the solution into an app that can then offer actual clues that individuals can pursue, which lead to other clues by correctly deducing previous ones, would truly take Clue/do to a new level. But it's going to take much more than just an electronic version of "Clue cards" to get there. I'm really not even sure this is a step in the right direction, but rather a way to preserve the physical board game which is still the core business of game manufacturers, while incorporating the devices and behaviors kids are likely to identify with, devices which however allow kids to petentially become distracted by their own non-stop social media during the game, especially as this app tends to isolate players from one another with the very secret hints they rely upon for the novelty itself.



Last edited by Murder by Death on Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I let the App stay open on my iPad taking screen shots to translate later, and made an interesting discovery. The App stopped sending messages after the 46th hint, then just endlessly cycled through the fake security surveillance cameras.

Of those 46, 15 were for Sargento Bigode, 15 Dona Rosa, 13 for Sr. Marinho, and 3 for everyone. It's interesting that Sr. Marinho was shortchanged two clues.

So given that there are 24 clues that could be given, we have to assume that at least 18 unique clues were given (15 to one player and 3 to all). This assumes that the other 2 players received only duplicate clues to the other players. If they each received some different clues from each other, then it's entirely possible that all 24 clues were given, between all players. I'll know better when I have time to translate them all.

I wanted to see how the app dealt with clues for the weapons, if any. Given the nature of the clues from anonymous witnesses, I thought it would be hard to exclude specific weapons. Perhaps that accounts for, in part, the 6 clue discrepancy.

I also wanted to see whether the app clues could easily be adapted into generic clues that could be included as a deck of cards. And based on what I've seen, I think it would be relatively easy. Based on the few I've translated so far they would fall into a couple of categories:

1) A witness has provided suspect "______" with an alibi. Present this card to each player until you receive confirmation.
2) A witness has confirmed that no crime was committed at location "_______". Present this card to each player until you receive confirmation.

The "________" would have the name of each suspect and each location, and would be kept secret from all other players, except those to whom it was presented. In addition there would be 3 group cards, which would require all players to discard the requested cards. Each group card would basically instruct the player to draw one or more Clue cards, and read them aloud.

So whenever a "?" is thrown on the dice, a card is taken for each "?" and instructions followed. These sorts of cards should provide all the hints the app does. I'll report back after I translate them ...
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Murder by Death
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I finally translated all the screenshots from the App game I played. It wasn't the translation (which was easy with the apps I found), it was the analysis, and understanding some references to a game I didn't have sitting in front of me, which some of the translations didn't help.

Turns out there's a biography panel for all the new suspects, which may well impact the interpretation of some of the clues as well, as you will see below. Unfortunately, there's no clear photos of this posted online to scan and translate, and the bios don't appear anywhere else. It seems a real shame that even the App doesn't include these bios. The app is actually devoid of much info at all, including one very important description for each character as you will see, which is otherwise included on the paper detective notes.



In playing the game, I was given the following clues for each Suspect, Location, and Weapon. The clue for each is identified by initial: "B"=Bigode, "M"=Marinho, & "R"=Rosa; the three players in this game. "All"=a clue for everyone. The first thing I'd like to point out is that the setup instructions for the game specify which location each pawn is to start from. They're listed in respective order below, but enhanced by color (Dona Branca should be white). What's really interesting to me is that there is no suggestions as to where to place the weapons, though I'm sure we could all more or less agree where they should go. That said, between all the clues, you can see the case is essentially solved. Note that "?" are questionable deductions, and "??" are what I can determine after the fact are apparent DECEPTIONS, as I break down further below.

Bigode is given 7 characters, 6 locations, 1 weapon (possibly 3 more).
Rosa is given 5 characters, 9 locations (possibly 2 more), 2 weapons (possibly 4 more)
Marrinho is given 6 suspects, 5 locations (possibly 6), 6 weapons (possibly 2 more).

Obviously some players may have a clear advantage over the other, especially if they are holding cards, or receive cards that fill in any remaining blanks faster.

CHARACTERS (SUSPECTS)
SERGEANT Bigode (Mustache) --
FLORIST Dona Branca — B, B
CHEF Tony Gormet — B, M
BUTLER James — B, B, ALL
DOCTOR Dona Violeta — B, B?, M, ALL
DANCER Miss Rosa — B, M, R, ALL
GRAVEDIGGER Sergio Soturno — M, ALL, ALL
ATTORNEY Mr. Marinho — M, R?, R, ALL

PLACE OF PAWN START (*/**secret passage)

TOWN HALL* — M, R, R?
FLOWER SHOP — B, M, M, R
RESTAURANT —
MANSION** — B, R, R?, R, R?
HOSPITAL** — B, M, R, R, R
NIGHTCLUB — M?, R, R?, R
CEMETARY — M, R, R?, ALL, ALL?
CENTRAL PLAZA — M, R
BANK — B, R?
HOTEL — B, R, R?
TRAIN STATION* — R, R

WEAPONS
BRASS KNUCKLES — B?, M?, M, R??
KNIFE — M??, R??
CROWBAR — B?, B?, M, M??, R??
SCISSORS — M??, R, R??
CHEMICAL WEAPON (Spray) — B?, M, M, M??
POISON (liquid) — M, M, M??
SHOTGUN — M, M??, R, R??
SHOVEL — B, B?, M, M??, R??, ALL?

SOLUTION: Bigode, Restaurant, Knife


NOTICE that several of the clues are given more than once to the same player.
Moreover, since there is no method for the players to tell the app which cards they are holding, there is no guarantee that a player won't receive a clue they are already holding. I consider this to be a short coming of the game. Obviously it doesn't take into consideration clues that the players receive from each other, and no way to interact with the app to inform it either, so there's likely to be a lot of duplication throughout the game.

The following then are all of the actual clues received by each player in order of receipt. Note that the clues more or less alternate between the three players. I've only indicated notes of interest, as the clues are otherwise self evident.

Quote:
B I'm a police officer and no spray was found at the scene. — I assume “spray” references the CHEMICAL WEAPON only, as that is the only one equipped with a spray mechanism. I’m not sure what it’s intended to be.
B Start your summer project at the EFIT DET Academy. With an incredible discount! Messages like this appear to be “filler”, not intended to convey a clue at all. I looked up some of the references to see if these were real advertisements, but they appear to just be time killers. Maybe they get a lot of unwanted commercial texts and phone calls in Brazil and this is intended to increase the realism?
B I'm sure I heard a male voice at the time of the crime.
B Ends today with the hair loss, using the brand new natural product from FIOSTIVE.
B I'm sure the weapon used for the crime is not the same as the one used to bury Carlos Fortuna
B I was told that the chef was preparing a special dish for a visitor International at the time of Crime -- This clearly exonerates the CHEF, but does it also rule out the RESTAURANT, since that's the CHEF's starting point? If so, it's a big misdirect.
B I have seen no indication that the site has been broken into. — I assume this might mean the crowbar may be eliminated, though I wouldn’t necessarily assume the murder weapon would be the same as the item used to break into the place. It could also be a relationship of the murderer to the location, which could just as easily be a deception then, as the crime scene is the RESTAURANT, but the murderer is not the CHEF. So maybe this is just a simple deception?
B I was paying my bills at the Bank and I assure you that nothing happened there
B At the time of the crime I was with the doctor giving medicine to my uncle. DONA VIOLETA is the DOCTOR, but does this also exclude the HOSPITAL? It would seem so, though it could be a house call Wink. Many Clues offer multiple hints.
B I went to the masked ball in the mansion and Carlos Fortuna was not there.
B At the time of the crime, I was buying flowers with Dona Branca.
B I am a hotel cleaner and when I went to clean the rooms I did not see anything strange.
B I need to tell you! Announced in the paper that the victim had no purple mark on his body. — I assume this alludes to the type of wound left by a particular weapon, which excludes all bludgeoning weapons?
B I was with the mother of Carlos Fortuna and the Butler was serving us tea at the time of the crime. — While this clearly excludes JAMES, who is the BUTLER, does it also exclude the mother of Carlos Fortuna? This is where the BIOs of the suspects would be helpful. The only character it could be would be DONA BRANCA, but then why isn’t her name Fortuna? And why does she have to work at a flower shop (even if she owns it)? Obviously there’s any number of explanations that could answer these questions, but we can’t assume them.
B I attended Butler on a walk down the street with the dogs at the time of the crime. -- NOTE: This duplicates the alibi for the BUTLER, but it also conflicts with the previous alibi while also duplicating the clue for the same player. This could be a DECEPTION, meant to make the BUTLER suspect, or not.

M Dude, the place was a mess! There were blood stains all over the place! — Again, this seems to clearly exclude several weapons, however, where to draw the line? Certainly this points to the stabing and shooting weapons, but many of the bludgeoning weapons can create quite a mess as well. Poisons and chemicals, can likewise cause a lot of blood, but I would assume these are clearly excluded.
M We were on a committee at the city hall at the time of the crime. Mr. Carlos Fortuna was not seen among those present.
M TELETIVE reports: Your balance is ending. Do a recharge at a post near you.
M Do you know what they said on television? They said that Carlos Fortuna's body had several cuts. — Again another problematic clue. Clearly this again points to the stabbing weapons, but bludgeoning weapons can make cuts as well, but one assumes this is not the intention of the clue.
M I checked with Carlos Fortuna to see the circus performance in the square, but he was not. Still I looked for it but I did not see it.
M At the time of the crime I saw the chef performing at a live cooking show. -- Again, this conflicts with the previous alibi given the CHEF, though to a different player, but still (unless the International visitor was on the cooking show Wink.
M I saw the dancer getting ready for your show during the time of the crime. — ROSA is the DANCER, but this is not clearly stated anywhere in the app, but only in the instructions, probably the bio, the detective notes, and the cards. Getting ready for the show assumes possibly the NIGHTCLUB is excluded here, but it’s not really clear enough clue to be sure.
M I went to buy flowers in great promotion of flower shop and nothing unusual happened at the time of the murder.
M The florist is my neighbor, we've been gossiping all day and we've seen nothing happen. DONA BRANCA is the FLORIST, and previously was given the alibi of selling flowers at the time of the murder to another player, though this does not necessarily conflict with that alibi.
M At the time of the crime the doctor was in the middle of my aunt's surgery. Again, we have another serious conflict. DONA VIOLETA is the DOCTOR, who was previously given the alibi to another player of dispensing medication.
M I was witness to a case in which the lawyer went to court in another city.
M I thought the killer had used rings to attack Charles Fortune. — Here is the first incredibly DECEPTIVE clue. The murder weapon is the knife, yet this seem to suggest it was the BRASS KNUCKLES, the only “ring”-like weapon in the group.
M I saw the undertaker making your rounds at the time of the crime. — I assumed both SERGIO SOTURNO as the undertaker, as well as the CEMETERY as the location.

R My friends and I stayed until the end of the show that was going on at the Club, and we haven't seen anything of strange there.
R You want to lose weight and do not know how? Talk to the DETEGRECER and discover the secret of the experts!
R They said the site didn't have any secret passage.
R I SAW the body of Carlos Fortuna and there was no bullet or shot marks.
R My friend is a detective and confirmed that there was an object for pest control on site that could be used as a weapon. — This is the second DECEPTIVE clue. One immediately assumes CHEMICAL WEAPONs and POISONs would be used as pest control. However, since the murder weapon is the KNIFE, clearly this could be virtually any other weapon.
R I was talking to the lawyer of Carlos Fortuna about an open process. The conversation lasted the all day. — Once again, the suspect BIOs would be handy here. It makes perfect sense that MARINHO is Carlos Fortuna’s lawyer, since he is a lawyer. Otherwise, there’s no real clue give here.
R Promotion HAPPY DAY! Make your subscription with us now and you will receive a welcome kit.
R I was in the theater watching the suspect dancer performing at the time of the crime. — Yet another clue which clearly names ROSA, but “theater” may or may not mean the NIGHTCLUB here. It's also yet another conflicting alibi -- a previous albibi to another player suggested ROSA was getting ready to perform.
R I was told that the object that was found is not an element of Office.
R I was standing near a crime scene window watching cars passing by. — I assume any location with a window, though without a clear copy of the locations, I can’t be sure about all of the possible options.
R On that day, I worked 2 hospital shifts to cover a missing nurse. I can assure That everything ran normally there.
R My friend told me that the location of the murder had no stairs.
R Look, at the train station may not have been. I was there with my aunts back to town When there has been a crime. We didn't see anything.
R I saw that just had people dressed as elegantly at the crime scene. — I assumed that the location would exclude anywhere there’s little likelihood of people dressed elegantly. However, that too can be DECEPTIVE, since the actual location was the RESTAURANT, but there’s nothing to presume it has a dress code.
R My friend, who's a COP, told me that they don't suspect anyone bald.

ALL The gravedigger got an idea with me all day. — SERGIO SOTURNO is clearly excluded since he’s the gravedigger, but does this clue exclude the CEMETERY or SHOVEL? Probably not. Fortunately, this alibi does not automatically conflict with the alibi given another player, who will also hear this clue.
ALL When I heard about the crime, I ran to the place and accidentally stepped upon pieces of a shattered eye-glasses. -- I believe the presumption is that the killer wears glasses
ALL My family was doing a tribute to our great aunt at the cemetery, just in time for murder. Nothing happened.


All things considered this was an interesting exercise. The clues given actually pose some quandaries requiring some deduction skills, more than I thought. And I found the solution to giving clues about the weapons mostly effective. But there's still a lot of problems with this kind of approach. As I've pointed out, there's a ton of ways these clues could be both unfair and problematic at the same time, especially since some of the clues are outright wrong, and others are just dead giveaways. That said, considering this game has two extra suspects, weapons, and rooms, this is a way to speed up the game. However, it's still mostly a gimmick and one that seems mostly distracting and intrusive. All things considered, I'd rather rely on random draws determined by the dice and Clue cards that elicit the same information, both regulated and integrated into gameplay rather than random interruptions. I can see now why each player needs 3 tries to solve the case with so many potentially deceptive options. One thing is clear though, the clues appear to be spaced out, with the "filler" clues appearing early in the game, suggesting that the designers anticipate the traditional gameplay to play a greater role in ending the game well before all of the clues are dispensed, or needed.

But these little vignettes are kind of fun, and I see no reason that the Clue cards couldn't be written this way, without knowing the solution -- since as we all know, not getting a clue from another player can provide as much information as getting one. Indeed a player holding the card in question could present the clue card to other players anyway, causing them to make incorrect conclusions in the same way a player makes suggestions about cards held in their hand. With that in mind, perhaps the confusing and deceptive clues given by the app are not so different?

As far as the app -- it could be so much more. If it provided a way to play against the app itself, it provides more of a reason to use it. That way, one or two players could play without a third or more. It would help if the app could record all the cards QR codes at once, and tailor the questions to the actual clues a player already holds in their hands. Scanning one card at a time is tedious enough for just the 3 solution cards, scanning each players cards one at a time would be a deal breaker for most. Better yet, if the central app communicated with individual players smart devices being used as a detective notebook (directly or via cloud), that would eliminate all of the setup issues, but would of course require everyone to have a compatible smart device. Requiring only one dedicated device greatly improves the odds of it being used.

And finally, if the game were designed for custom play with the app, such that actual clues were given that enabled real deduction and following real clues in order to get an answer, not just giving away answers. In other words, give clues which require the players to know the locations, characteristics and bios of the players such that they can follow them and actually investigate, including asking questions of the other players, that lead to specific cards being shown (for instance). The app does a surprising bit more of this than I was expecting, but it's still mostly just giving away answers to speed up the game, all the while taking the other players out of it, and encouraging kids to keep using their ubiquitous phones and tablets. I can't even imagine playing a game with my nephews and nieces where they are checking their Facebook and Instagram feeds between moves, completely disengaged from the game, because they are encouraged to keep their phones in their hands the entire game.

But I totally get why. Now that Hasbro competes with Estrela in Brazil selling Clue alongside Detetive, Estrela is forced to create a compelling reason to keep buying Detetive. both 3D and the app give them an edge over Clue. But Hasbro seems to have figured out that the boardgame should be just a boardgame, and an app and app, and keep the two separate for now. Still those in Brazil who grew up with Detetive are likely going to opt for that over Clue, and the gimmicks will only compel that choice. Since Clue already tried that with Secrets and Spies, I'd hope they've learned their lesson and stay away from this particular approach unless they can substantially improve upon it. For now, they seem to offer an inexpensive box game for group interaction, and have farmed out a full electronic version of the game for those who prefer that platform, offering add-ons that can make it a much more expensive choice. Certainly, once a group of friends can join together with their smartphones, and play a multi-player game with each other, there won't be much need for a board. Marmalade could easily incorporate similar Clues to the Detetive app in place of their traditional hints, assuming this really enhances gameplay.
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