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Variant Rules

 
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Frostbyte
Slueth


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 361
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:40 am    Post subject: Variant Rules Reply with quote

I play a lot of board games with friends, and one complaint several of them have with Clue is how random your luck can be with movement, because it's a "roll & move" game. To address this, I created a variant that they were happy with.

Instead of rolling to move, on your turn you must move to an adjacent room, or through a secret passage. For example, if you start your turn in the Study, you can move to either the Hall, Library or Kitchen, and take your turn as normal.

Has anyone else used this or any other rule variants? If so, what did you do and how did it go?
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BBP
Private Eye


Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 438
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Dutch version (maybe others too) you typically roll 2 dice. Since you're 7 or 8 spaces away from the nearest room at your starting point and there's often a room 3 spaces away, it doesn't happen a lot that you have to wait outside. A race to the crime scene is a lot less tedious.
Dutch regulations also allow you to stay in a room for as long as you like but that's not a recommendable tactic.

I found the original rules, when I had to play them in Clue: Murder At Boddy Mansion, to be rather tedious compared to the ones I'm used to.
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Black
Bindle Stiff


Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 5992
Location: In the Billiard Rm with the Wrench

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just a house rule that I created to determine a winner in case of a tie.

1) If no one solves the crime than the person who got the most right wins.
2) If there is still a tie, than the winner is person who accused the murderer correctly wins.
3) If there is still a tie than the player who accused last between the tied players has won the game.
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alwaysPeacock
Fleet Street Look-Out


Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 3199
Location: GA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBP wrote:
In the Dutch version (maybe others too) you typically roll 2 dice. Since you're 7 or 8 spaces away from the nearest room at your starting point and there's often a room 3 spaces away, it doesn't happen a lot that you have to wait outside. A race to the crime scene is a lot less tedious.
Dutch regulations also allow you to stay in a room for as long as you like but that's not a recommendable tactic.

I found the original rules, when I had to play them in Clue: Murder At Boddy Mansion, to be rather tedious compared to the ones I'm used to.


Actually, your Dutch rules are much closer to the true original rules for Cluedo. The rules from my 1965 edition allow a player to remain in a room as long as he/she wishes, essentially whittling down the suspect & weapon in a very lazy way. The old Commodore computer version works this way, too. I've never understood why the US version only used one die for so long, though I am glad the rules were tweaked to force players to actually move around.

Frostbyte: in your no-roll version, where does everyone begin the game? Or do players have to roll until they've reached a room, then just room hop?
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cluefan8888
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Joined: 30 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always played it to where you must get to the cellar to Accuse. You also would have gone to your start space to Confess. Confessing is like accusing yourself with [weapon] in [room]. You cannot Accuse yourself in a Accusation.
Example :
Mrs. White went back to her start space. She "Confesses" By Saying she killed Mr. Body with the Knife in the kitchen. If she got at least one wrong then she would be OUT of the game.
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Murder by Death
Forensics Supervisor


Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 2207

PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alwaysPeacock wrote:
BBP wrote:
In the Dutch version (maybe others too) you typically roll 2 dice. Since you're 7 or 8 spaces away from the nearest room at your starting point and there's often a room 3 spaces away, it doesn't happen a lot that you have to wait outside. A race to the crime scene is a lot less tedious.
Dutch regulations also allow you to stay in a room for as long as you like but that's not a recommendable tactic.

I found the original rules, when I had to play them in Clue: Murder At Boddy Mansion, to be rather tedious compared to the ones I'm used to.


Actually, your Dutch rules are much closer to the true original rules for Cluedo. The rules from my 1965 edition allow a player to remain in a room as long as he/she wishes, essentially whittling down the suspect & weapon in a very lazy way. The old Commodore computer version works this way, too. I've never understood why the US version only used one die for so long, though I am glad the rules were tweaked to force players to actually move around.

Frostbyte: in your no-roll version, where does everyone begin the game? Or do players have to roll until they've reached a room, then just room hop?


I'm pretty sure this has been discussed a number of times on these boards, but a quick search turned up nothing. I fear one of the server crashes wiped out some of this history, as it did work a few other threads.

I actually like the idea of a dice-less game. It would certainly speed up gameplay. As for the player start spaces, I would think they would likewise start their turn by advancing to one of the closest adjacent rooms. I think all starting spaces have a choice of at least two rooms immediately adjacent to their space.

I think the die was meant to slow gameplay during a time when there wasn't much else to do. The game was developed during the war after all. Because honestly what other purpose do the dice serve? For that matter, why have starting spaces at all? I much prefer having all players start in the center and chose their own path. I suppose the only practical purpose of the starting spaces is that it forces the players to be dispersed across the board from the start of the game, rather than have everyone migrate toward the same locations, though I'm not sure there's an benefit to that either. So if the dice are to be removed from the game, I'd just as soon ignore the starting spaces as well. Maybe use the starting spaces for the turn order, and allow players to advance to any room they choose for their first move as if staring in the center, then move only adjacently thereafter. And while we're at it, what's with that turn order? That may be one reason for the starting spaces, to equalize everyone's chances of reaching a room first, regardless of what character they chose, or what order they first move -- that would be gone if the dice are removed completely, so perhaps the dice are only used to establish start order.

cluefan8888 wrote:
I've always played it to where you must get to the cellar to Accuse. You also would have gone to your start space to Confess. Confessing is like accusing yourself with [weapon] in [room]. You cannot Accuse yourself in a Accusation.
Example :
Mrs. White went back to her start space. She "Confesses" By Saying she killed Mr. Body with the Knife in the kitchen. If she got at least one wrong then she would be OUT of the game.


I really like the idea of a confession. Of course that could be unfair for a self accusing player depending on how far they are from their space, not to mention giving other players an advantage if they suspect a player is moving across the board to confess. Maybe just having everyone return to their space for an accusation, which at most only causes a stampede for their starting spaces to try and beat the others to an accusation or confession, without giving away the possible murderer in the process. Of course that could also be a deceptive tactic as well. In a diceless game, it doesn't matter much, unless the center is not used at all
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cluefan8888
Gumshoe


Joined: 30 Jul 2016
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Location: In the gazebo with the posion.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murder by Death wrote:
alwaysPeacock wrote:
BBP wrote:
In the Dutch version (maybe others too) you typically roll 2 dice. Since you're 7 or 8 spaces away from the nearest room at your starting point and there's often a room 3 spaces away, it doesn't happen a lot that you have to wait outside. A race to the crime scene is a lot less tedious.
Dutch regulations also allow you to stay in a room for as long as you like but that's not a recommendable tactic.

I found the original rules, when I had to play them in Clue: Murder At Boddy Mansion, to be rather tedious compared to the ones I'm used to.


Actually, your Dutch rules are much closer to the true original rules for Cluedo. The rules from my 1965 edition allow a player to remain in a room as long as he/she wishes, essentially whittling down the suspect & weapon in a very lazy way. The old Commodore computer version works this way, too. I've never understood why the US version only used one die for so long, though I am glad the rules were tweaked to force players to actually move around.

Frostbyte: in your no-roll version, where does everyone begin the game? Or do players have to roll until they've reached a room, then just room hop?


I'm pretty sure this has been discussed a number of times on these boards, but a quick search turned up nothing. I fear one of the server crashes wiped out some of this history, as it did work a few other threads.

I actually like the idea of a dice-less game. It would certainly speed up gameplay. As for the player start spaces, I would think they would likewise start their turn by advancing to one of the closest adjacent rooms. I think all starting spaces have a choice of at least two rooms immediately adjacent to their space.

I think the die was meant to slow gameplay during a time when there wasn't much else to do. The game was developed during the war after all. Because honestly what other purpose do the dice serve? For that matter, why have starting spaces at all? I much prefer having all players start in the center and chose their own path. I suppose the only practical purpose of the starting spaces is that it forces the players to be dispersed across the board from the start of the game, rather than have everyone migrate toward the same locations, though I'm not sure there's an benefit to that either. So if the dice are to be removed from the game, I'd just as soon ignore the starting spaces as well. Maybe use the starting spaces for the turn order, and allow players to advance to any room they choose for their first move as if staring in the center, then move only adjacently thereafter. And while we're at it, what's with that turn order? That may be one reason for the starting spaces, to equalize everyone's chances of reaching a room first, regardless of what character they chose, or what order they first move -- that would be gone if the dice are removed completely, so perhaps the dice are only used to establish start order.

cluefan8888 wrote:
I've always played it to where you must get to the cellar to Accuse. You also would have gone to your start space to Confess. Confessing is like accusing yourself with [weapon] in [room]. You cannot Accuse yourself in a Accusation.
Example :
Mrs. White went back to her start space. She "Confesses" By Saying she killed Mr. Body with the Knife in the kitchen. If she got at least one wrong then she would be OUT of the game.


I really like the idea of a confession. Of course that could be unfair for a self accusing player depending on how far they are from their space, not to mention giving other players an advantage if they suspect a player is moving across the board to confess. Maybe just having everyone return to their space for an accusation, which at most only causes a stampede for their starting spaces to try and beat the others to an accusation or confession, without giving away the possible murderer in the process. Of course that could also be a deceptive tactic as well. In a diceless game, it doesn't matter much, unless the center is not used at all

Good Point. But I Do want to point out that If players suspect someone is going around the board to confess can be Like Deducting who has what card without being shown the card. But I Do like your idea as well.
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BBP
Private Eye


Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 438
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murder by Death wrote:


I really like the idea of a confession. Of course that could be unfair for a self accusing player depending on how far they are from their space, not to mention giving other players an advantage if they suspect a player is moving across the board to confess. Maybe just having everyone return to their space for an accusation, which at most only causes a stampede for their starting spaces to try and beat the others to an accusation or confession, without giving away the possible murderer in the process. Of course that could also be a deceptive tactic as well. In a diceless game, it doesn't matter much, unless the center is not used at all


I don't like having to return to a certain space - remember that game we'd had here?
http://theartofmurder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4848

What happened: after the murder I was fully convinced who did it, where and with what. The small advantage I had of guessing 2/3 correctly on my first turn had disappeared, since at least the room and the weapon could be known to everybody if they'd been paying attention - we were all summoned to the gallery because another murder had been committed there - and then I had a problem. Black playing as Ms Scarlett had a lot less far to walk than I and so I ended up suspecting his character so I could make it in time to my home square - he'd managed to get a good card and got to go to his starting space before me. No fun.

I'd prefer an accuse-as-soon-as-you-know approach, regardless of whether it's your turn or not.
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TheButlerButInnocent
Snoop


Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 36
Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of showing a disproving card during a suggestion, we would hand the card to the suggester, which we found more secure. One time, someone joked, "Can I keep this?"

Which got us thinking. What if you kept disproving cards after each suggestion? We tried that for a few games, and it turns Clue more into a card than board game. Some say it makes the game easier; some say more difficult.

We then decided a variant in which the murderer knows that they are the murderer. Fortunately, when we tried this, we had a spare person who could look at the solution and tell us each individually and secretly whether or not we were the murderer. To make this possible when you do not have an extra person (and, therefore, a functional and practical game) would require something similar to the solution card cases in Super Cluedo Challenge (perhaps with six latches assigned to each suspect around the card and everyone takes turns looking under theirs to see if there is a symbol signifying their guilt).

Once the murderer knew who they were, the game rules changed for them. Instead of solving the crime, their goal was to destroy evidence. The cards are moving from hand to hand with each suggestion, but the murderer is trying to get all of the same kind of card (i.e., all five innocent suspects) -- similar to Spoons. Once they do, the murderer can destroy the evidence (equivalent to making an accusation) and wins the game.

In my opinion, this made for a more exciting game because in our first variant game, people pass cards around quickly, trying to see as many as possible and not caring about disproving suggestions, but because you are trying to keep clue cards out of the murderer's (read: anyone's) hands, people become more tactful about which clues they pass along, and if you are innocent and discern who is the murderer, you can watch that player's actions more closely and try to sabotage them. In a game where no one is playing as the murderer, no one will know until the murderer is discerned through the course of the game.
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