Favourite Clue subtleties

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CluedoKid
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Favourite Clue subtleties

Post by CluedoKid » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:40 am

I love watching the "little things" in Clue the movie. One not-so-subtle gem being Yvette flipping her skirt for a split second before sitting down. :P

I watched the match-cutting scene again and payed closer attention to the expressions. One that struck me in particular was Colonel Mustard's reaction to Miss Scarlet's cluck of disgust with being partnered with him. His face conveyed a mix of bemusement and hurt. Almost as though he felt stood up or had his ego bruised by Scarlet's repulsion.

Furthermore, I payed closer attention to Scarlet and Mustard again in the scene following as the pairs disperse. There was an odd interaction between them both before entering the Billiard Room. Mustard appears to be whispering something as Scarlet slowly slinks her way in.

So small, but adds so much.
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Post by go_leafs_nation » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:08 am

I love the expressions on everyone's face as they sing For He's a Jolly Good Fellow. It's what makes me laugh every time, as Mustard looks around completely lost and Green gets overly enthusiastic about it.
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Lord Caspen
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My, yes

Post by Lord Caspen » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:47 am

There's no end to this category, really.

When Yvette serves Plum in the dining room, he all but plunges his nose right between Yvette's breasts -- the leer is obvious, but it wasn't until some late subsequent viewing I realized just how close he is to her cleavage, and his expression is of such overwhelming longing, as though a droughted man at the rim of his first full cup of water in years.

I really like Plum's expression, too, nodding in professional sympathy while listening to White's "it's all about me" revisionism on her husband's demise.

Of course Wadsworth's little eyeroll at Scarlet misunderstanding "in public" is priceless.

When White rebuts that "flies are where men are most vulnerable," Mustard agrees with her at once, and then clouds over with confusion because something just now did not go according to plan and he can't quite put his finger on it.

Regarding the Mustard/Scarlet pairing: I don't think he is so much hurt as he is oblivious. He's just really, really pleased to be with her. I find it curious that we don't see much of his admiration for her till just now (though there is no doubt about it, she is a knockout), but still this sudden flash of personal connection is quite charming.

Oh! But what I really love is when Peacock and White run blindly into each other's arms after the first gunshot in the Hall, and then immediately break their embrace, shivering in revulsion, as though they'd each just reached out and hugged a giant turd.
Another favorite: Peacock is trying to prevent Wadsworth's holding onto the cupboard key and she herself is having a hard time holding onto her hat, and poor White beside her just watches her struggles with a mix of bemusement and concern that thing may fly off at any moment. I think it's also thrusting the feathers into her face and she's very put out.

[Edit: Jesus. The censor on this thing is positively Puritanical! They're breasts for Pete's sake!]

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Re: My, yes

Post by cluedoking123 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:21 am

Lord Caspen wrote:and poor White beside her just watches her struggles with a mix of bemusement and concern that thing may fly off at any moment. I think it's also thrusting the feathers into her face and she's very put out. breasts for Pete's sake!]
I love watching the things Mrs. White does! including when Wadsworth is throwing Mr. Green around and she is laughing at him! or when they Plum and scarlet are arguing about the stranger in the lounge and Mrs. White's behind him making some sort of claw motion with her hands. Oh I about wet myself every time i see that!
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Post by Michael » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:28 am

I'd seen the movie so many times before I noticed Mrs. White trying to sneak out the door when Wadsworth is throwing away the key. Did she really think she was going to get away? LOL.
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Post by CluedoKid » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:19 pm

Does anyone recall what gives Mustard that nosebleed near the end?
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Lord Caspen
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Nosebleed

Post by Lord Caspen » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:21 pm

CluedoKid wrote:Does anyone recall what gives Mustard that nosebleed near the end?
I don't know. I just always assumed it was just a random recurrence. Doesn't that happen with nosebleeds, especially after recent trauma? That they'll just suddenly start bleeding again?

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Post by Mr_Scarlett » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:16 pm

"So, everything's explained"

Mrs. Peacock nods.

"Nothing's explained, we still not know who killed him"

Mrs. Peacock shakes head.

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Post by cluedoking123 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:00 am

lol! yes! on mrs. P

That reminds me what the heck does she mean when ever she says "You mean? Oh-my-god or course!" at the end when wadsworth says the police haven't been called.
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Post by Murder by Death » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:20 am

cluedoking123 wrote:That reminds me what the heck does she mean when ever she says "You mean? Oh-my-god or course!" at the end when wadsworth says the police haven't been called.
Its been discussed:

http://www.theartofmurder.com/forums/vi ... 337#104337

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Post by Green » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:57 am

Mr_Scarlett wrote:"So, everything's explained"

Mrs. Peacock nods.

"Nothing's explained, we still not know who killed him"

Mrs. Peacock shakes head.
One of my favorite moments of the entire movie.

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Re: Nosebleed

Post by Murder by Death » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:25 am

Lord Caspen wrote: I just always assumed it was just a random recurrence. Doesn't that happen with nosebleeds, especially after recent trauma? That they'll just suddenly start bleeding again?
I think that's a little too much trouble to go to in a movie for an unimportant character affectation. If the character of Mustard suffered from nose-bleeds, then why not do it in all three endings?

Mustard's nose-bleed starts during the flashback sequences as Wadsworth recounts Yvette committing the murders. Before they cut away, Mustard's nose is fine, when the cut back, he clearly has a nose-bleed. It makes absolutely no sense. Clearly the cause of the nose-bleed was cut.

The shooting script doesn't shed much light as there are only two additional cryptic lines cut that themselves don't make sense, neither involving Mustard. Otherwise it follows the action on the screen. As you have pointed out earlier, the script is not complete despite the way it is numbered. So page 118 & 119 are split by 118A, and where there's an "A" there could easily be a "B" with the cut action that caused Mustard's nose-bleed. However, one possible explanation is that according to the script, the flashback sequence was to be shot with Wadsworth reenacting the entire thing. Similarly to the Miss Scarlet ending where he throws Mustard to the floor, he might have done something similar that resulted in a bloody-nose. I submit this is the most logical explanation based on the evidence at hand, and this then disappeared when they replaced it with the flashbacks. It makes far more sense that he got the bloody-nose as the result of some slapstick rather than a random unexplained character trait.

The least likely explanation is that Mull actually developed a nose-bleed, and because they were so far behind schedule by the end of the film (Lynn tried to shoot it in chronological order), they decided to write it into the scene rather than lose a shooting day. But it's certainly possible.

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Post by Michael » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:11 am

I think it's just that it started bleeding again. It was bleeding pretty profusely in the Study after his fight with Boddy. I agree, though, that it was weird to start it again. It could have made a better joke if it kept bleeding throughout the movie.
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Lord Caspen

Post by Lord Caspen » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:44 am

I never supposed it was just a character trait.

I think it's far more likely that, having been struck and made to bleed earlier that very night, the inflamed tissue simply began to bleed again. It doesn't have to be in all endings. Now, if the point is simply: they probably had an ending-specific reason, then sure, it makes sense.

My point is just that I'm fine with its being simply an incidental thing that makes this ending unique. This time around, it happened to occur to them, Hey, you know, after the stress of all this running around, his nose might start bleeding again. So he bleeds. It could have been the last ending they filmed, or maybe they just didn't bother with it later. Either way, it's perfectly sensible both in and out of the plot itself.

I, too, suspect there was something more to it -- so, of course I'd like to know what that was.

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Post by Murder by Death » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:19 pm

Of course anything is possible, but nah, Hollywood just doesn't work that way. Everything happens for a reason. The problems of just having a nose begin to bleed for no specific reason, because it might in real life, or to give Mustard something different to do in that ending, is not worth the cost of continuity issues and time for makeup considerations, especially if they were so far behind schedule by the time they got to the endings. I think this is the least plausible reason of all the speculation. Most likely it was some kind of slapstick involving a similar punch to the nose he got from Boddy, long since cut ... we may never know for sure.

Michael, we never saw Mustard get punched In the nose, if anything he should be tending to his eyes that got poked. But here was a specific purpose for giving him a nose bleed - to demonstrate that Mustard got his but t kicked. It justifies the effort necessary to show it. Further, his nose bleeds on camera for less than a minute and has stopped entirely, not even a napkin in sight, or blood on his moustache by the time Boddy returns with the suitcase (an indication of how difficult it is to deal with that kind of gag). Now, they make a point of placing Mustard directly in the shot to nurse his bloody nose, either to make a point that he got his but t kicked, or to set us up for a book-end to the joke in the first ending, or both - maybe that's the joke, only in the first ending perhaps Wadsworth originally re-enacted Boddy punching-Mustard, or used Mustard like he later did with Green to stand-in for the cook. They could have even shot this ending with a completely different explanation for how Yvette did it, which involved Mustard getting punched, then went back and re-shot the flashbacks to go with new voice-over, cutting out the punch to Mustard's face. The suspicious page 118A tends to support that probability. Either way, it seems only logical that Mustard's nose began to bleed due to a specific occurrence during Wadsworth's explanation of how the Cook was killed. In fact, I'll go you one further ... Because we don't know what color page 118 and 118A of the shooting script are, the original 118 could have had a completely different explanation than what ended up in the film, with Mustard having a nose-bleed from shortly after Wadsworth turned the lights on, which was then reshot to accommodate he new ending.

I really hope paramount is planning a Blu-Ray release with commentary by Lynn to explain some of these inconstancies. The mere fact Lynn is associating himself with the movie again at screenings and did an extensive interview for the soundtrack album offers hope we may well see such a new release with audio commentary and hopefully alternate scenes.

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Post by Michael » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:12 pm

You never see Mustard get punched in the nose, but when he goes down on the floor, just as the camera is panning away, you see Boddy raise his fist to go in for a strike - which one would assume would be right on the nose. Mustard then has a bloody nose for a number of shots thereafter.
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Post by Murder by Death » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:54 pm

Michael wrote:You never see Mustard get punched in the nose, but when he goes down on the floor, just as the camera is panning away, you see Boddy raise his fist to go in for a strike - which one would assume would be right on the nose. Mustard then has a bloody nose for a number of shots thereafter.
Exactly. The bloody nose is not mentioned in the shooting script. It is something they specificaly did on the spot, to emphasize that single punch we fleetingly see. I would be curious to know if they actually got a shot from behind the couch where we see Mustard getting punched, or if this was Lynn's solution to show that it happened.

And it's not a "number of shots" where Mustard has a bloody nose, it's literally ONE shot that lasts for less than a minute of real time. Mustard only has the napkin on his nose during Wadsworth's confrontation with Boddy after he's been kneed in the groin, in the single shot where he walks into frame holding it behind Wadsworth, and as soon as the shot changes to Boddy getting the suitcase, the bloody nose is never seen again until it spontaneously recurs in the Scarlet ending.

This is even more proof that Mustard's nose was not intended to spontaneously start bleeding again in that ending (because that sometimes happens in real life), but rather something was originally scripted and ultimately cut, which provoked that specific choice again by Lynn.

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Post by CluedoKid » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:43 am

Well I think this has gone on long enough...


Now, a question that been burning for a while. What do you think Wadsworth discussed with J. Edgar Hoover in the Library?
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Post by Black » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:37 am

CluedoKid wrote:Well I think this has gone on long enough...


Now, a question that been burning for a while. What do you think Wadsworth discussed with J. Edgar Hoover in the Library?
Depends on the ending.

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Well ...

Post by Lord Caspen » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:03 am

I agree that it depends on the ending, however:

It only depends in the sense that in exactly one ending, the conversation was likely pretty distinctive, while in the other two it was likely virtually the same each.

The ones which are similar are probably pretty easy to guess at: "Sorry, sir, but there seem to be a lot bodies piling up over this. You'll need to didpatch a cleanup crew. The culprit? Well ... Yes. I think I have a pret-ty good idea. I'll fill you in later ..."

There'd be a bit more to it, to fill all that time, but that'd be the gist of it.

That still leaves unexplained what they talk about in that other ending, which as I say is pretty easily unique.

I think Hoover asks to speak to "Mr. Green.". This is why when Green says, "I was going to expose you," Wadsworth coolly replies, "I know." He knows, because he heard it from Hoover himself.

Wadsworth then stalls, to cadge information and get a clearer idea of his chances.

Hoover is a cagey bird, and mirrors the same strategy, not sure who he's dealing with and calling, after all, on a fact-finding mission.

I'm not clear how to read Wadsworth's expression afterward, when Green and the Cop join him, but given that later he seems pretty confident that the police really aren't on their way, then I can only think he has just barely managed to convince Hoover not to show up (or so he believes). He's genuinely shocked at how close he's come to its all falling apart. Of all the scenarios for which he'd planned, the FBI was never even among the top ten considered.

Then the only question which remains is what can you say to J. Edgar Hoover which might plausibly, to the mind of a crafty blackmailer like Boddy, be supposed to allay his suspicions and call off or misdirect the cavalry charge at the end?

Whatever it is Wadsworth says, though, clearly the impetus is on Hoover to be convincing as believing him, which is equally baffling.

Basically, it has to amount to, "The party you're looking for isn't here," and "Oh, no? Huh. Must have got the wrong house ... Well, thanks anyway!"

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