They're the same person, aren't they? I mean, the newspaper on the Super Cluedo box uses the photos of Brown and Peach from Passport, so I just assumed that Inspector Grey and Earl Grey were one and the same just like Brown and De'ath are the same. Regardless, that's how I view them.Black wrote:That's Inpector Gray, he's from the Super Cluedo
A place to discuss all aspects of Clue/Cluedo.
- Mr. Sterling Silver
- Private Eye
- Joined:Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:33 pm
- Location:Hampshire, where else?
Yes I see it the same way. Same card art, same person. Why can't an Earl be an Inspector (or perhaps his name is "Earl" LOL)?Mr. Sterling Silver wrote:They're the same person, aren't they?
This is what makes many of the foreign editions redundant for me, because it's the same card art in many cases with translated names â€“ I know you want to put limits on how many suspects you have, but it might be worth investigating just the foreign suspects with their own unique art, which do not duplicate the English characters. The early Swiss game in particular comes to mind. Might give your game the option for a little more foreign intrigue.
By the way ... I have now rethought my position on the Jr. Clue characters. This is a very adult gathering, so the kids should all be at home with the sitter.
However, now that this subject of card art defining the same characters regardless of their names has come up ...
I realize now that you are using the 2002/03 combo-Green in your banner. I think this is a mistake. This is Hasbro's first step in a long line of recent mistakes to wipe all character and uniqueness from the regional differences that have made Cluedo so beloved worldwide. The art of that Green is particularly inappropriate as well â€“ they've taken the mob-boss Green idea form the '72 edition too far in turning him into some kind of shameless "mob-muscle-thug" and to add insult to injury, just slapped a cleric's collar onto him for the Cluedo editions. And, this is the last and only original edition of Cluedo to ever combine the character into the same artwork, negating 54 years of tradition in one blow. You might as well just update him to be young Jacob Green for all the connection 2002/03 Green has to Cluedo.
I on the other-hand, have now come to view Mr. Green and Rev. Green as two distinct characters. For 54 years these men have always had two distinct personalities and artwork. Further, they make an interesting compliment to each other, either as unrelated characters, or more interestingly, two brothers: one who took the secular path, the other the righteous path, but both are corrupt to the core. I see you offer both a Mr. & Rev. card with silhouettes. But, with so much wonderful Mr. Green and Rev. Green artwork to choose from, wouldn't your banner (crowded though it may already be) benefit from these two unique characters, rather than the one hideous, hybrid mutant-Green?
- Mr. Sterling Silver
- Private Eye
- Joined:Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:33 pm
- Location:Hampshire, where else?
Yeah, I thought of just making Earl his first name, but there's a passage in Passport to Murder where Rev. Green refers to him, and it reads more like it's his title than his name.Murder by Death wrote:Yes I see it the same way. Same card art, same person. Why can't an Earl be an Inspector (or perhaps his name is "Earl" LOL)?Mr. Sterling Silver wrote:They're the same person, aren't they?
Believe me, I have considered this. I thought about adding Mme Curry and Chef Lettuce, just because I like their names, but it's already getting unwieldy with the 40+ suspects I have so far. But, as I keep saying, the idea is "pick and choose who you use" when you play. I've made some other cards, just for myself, that I've never posted of a few favorite characters from here and there, mostly just for fun.it might be worth investigating just the foreign suspects with their own unique art.
When you think about it, all six original suspects (with the possible exception of White, who seems always to be the maid and cook) have been portrayed two different ways in the board games:Wouldn't your banner benefit from these two rather than the hideous mutant Green from the most recent "classic" edition?
Scarlet - vapid actress vs. Asian spy
Mustard - doddering old coot vs. handsome young soldier
Green - reverend vs. mobster
Peacock - wealthy socialite vs. nosy busybody
Plum - older eccentric scientist vs. younger archaeology professor
So for my purposes, I separated the Greens, brought in Fraulein Ming to assume Scarlet's Asian spy role and made Col. Yellow the handsome young soldier version of Mustard. The games themselves already took care of Peacock's nosy busybody persona by giving it to Mrs. Meadow-Brook. I think the two Plums can be combined into one fairly easily.
So I'm using as many ideas from the games as I can, and throwing in a few of my own. And no, just like the banner, it won't please everyone, but then again, what does?
I was definitely joking. Only in "Hillbilly Clue" does that make sense.Mr. Sterling Silver wrote:I thought of just making Earl his first name
I have to take exception to that. Rev. Green and Mr. Green are not merely old vs. young, or two aspects of the same person. They are two completely different people: the modest local vicar vs. a cut-throat businessman, mob connected or otherwise.Mr. Sterling Silver wrote:all six original suspects ... have been portrayed two different ways in the board games
While Scarlett has been depicted as Asian vs. White (and I don't think specifically defined as a spy until the VCR game â€“ and never in any board game), she essentially played the same role â€“ a seductress. You define the rest in differing shades of the same color â€“Â scientist vs. professor (think Indiana Jones who does both equally well), socialite vs. busybody (isn't that the same thing?), old vs. young (still a man of the military). Only Green is a completely different occupation, character and personality â€“ and the 2002/03 game made no attempt whatsoever to combine the characters realistically, which only makes the disparity more obvious.
If you make the distinction between the characters based on every different depiction then for sure you have an unmanageable sea of characters. If you want to honor "spy" Scarlet, I think you are doing it the right way, but she is the sole rare exception to the rule for that character, and while she may be a spy, she is a seductress first and foremost. Whereas you have 54 years of a unique Rev. Green and Mr. Green who could never be one in the same person, or more importantly the same archetype.
What you do in your banner is your own business, all I'm saying is you've got at least 4 Gray/Grey's on your banner when theoretically they could all be the same character, yet Rev. & Mr. Green simply cannot be as far as I'm concerned. That, and I hate the 2002/03 Green.
BY THE WAY â€“Â do you have link somewhere to a character map with all of their names to identify them? Even your banner, I'm not sure where a couple of those faces come from.
No, I have to disagree. The two Mrs. Peacocks we see throughout the history of the game are very different. You have "socialite" Mrs. Peacock who is elegant, wealthy, and cunning. She has stylish clothes and is still very capable of men falling for her. Busybody Peacock is just some old lady who is more of a typical granny who knits and gossips and is obsessed with manners.Murder by Death wrote:...socialite vs. busybody (isn't that the same thing?)...
I think there's a big difference.
Once again, these are physical differences. A socialite can be a busy-body and a busy-body can be a socialite. Plus you are reading into Peacock's '72 portrait your own biases. This type of woman has often been depicted as a socialite in films and TV, often the gruff old-school grande dame who frowns upon the young ingenue whom she feels does not have what it takes to be part of her inner circles. And her clothes are certainly age-appropriate to an elderly society matron for a day-time gathering at a weekend country estate, especially for 1972. Note in 1986 they add gloves to the same outfit, emphasizing the younger Peacock's sophistication, if not social status. Two sides of the same coin.MissScarletDidntDoIt wrote:No, I have to disagree. The two Mrs. Peacocks we see throughout the history of the game are very different.
More importantly, there is almost one major exception to each character throughout their 60 year existence. However, based on who these characters were originally created as in 1949, and how they have been depicted the vast majority of the time, '72 Peacock is a minor exception to the rule and cannot be compared to 54 years of Green being depicted as two completely different characters.
"Spy Scarlet" is certainly a major departure in character, personality and occupation, but it's one time only and she is not a board game character either.
Otherwise, all of these so-called differences are merely cosmetic: age, race, wardrobe, etc. The stock-character type, however does not change: Seductress/gold-digger, Staunch military man, Socialite/Busy-body, Domestic employee, Scholar/Man of science â€“Â none of which are mutually exclusive to any depiction of them I've seen. It might be a different story if these different interpretations were accompanied with the same sort of detailed backgrounds we've come to expect from later editions. But as it stands, anything else is merely inference and subjective speculation.
Green on the other hand is clearly portrayed as a Shrewd businessman/Mobster AND a Pompus man of the cloth/Clergy. Two distinct personalities, wardrobes, occupation and names. Young or old, black or white, shabby or quaffed, makes no difference.
And to the extent there are any arguable portrayals like '72 Peacock, they are the exception to the rule and should not warrant the same weight as a character like Green which is clearly two different archetypes for 54 years. But, it makes no sense to have two "Mrs. Peacocks", whose only differences are age, attire, and disposition in a single game, without any other proof to the contrary â€“Â both characters serve exactly the same function: pretentious disapproving matrons.
Not sure where you get that he is a lawyer. Seems completely speculative to me. However, he could easily be a "doctor of divinity" or "doctor of the church". Indeed in the original French edition they used the UK depiction of Rev. Green with a cleric collar. Even if you are right, it is again the exception to the rule.Black wrote:The french portraid him as a doctor and he might also be a lawyer.
I would say it is mostly to do with his occupation and depicted personality. One could nickname a mobster "Rev." (because he gives last rights before he "whacks" you) but that doesn't changes his character in any way. Nor does calling a vicar "Mr." change the fact he is a priest.MissScarletDidntDoIt wrote:Green certainly has the most notable difference, mostly caused by the difference in his titles of Reverend and Mr.
Besides arguably the 1972 version, which other Clue game depicts Peacock as a "nosy granny"? And which versions specifically define her as "jetset"?MissScarletDidntDoIt wrote:Mrs. Peacock also has a major difference between jetset snob and nosy granny.
EDIT: in an attempt to answer my own question, I discovered the one major exception to Mrs. Peacock as socialite/busy-body: Master Detective & Super Cluedo have her as an accomplished ornithologist. This is a major departure in character.
Really?MissScarletDidntDoIt wrote:Everyone has their own opinion of course though.
No argument there, but I do think there are a few objective points as I've outlined above, that can be used to guide a common viewpoint, if someone wanted to be true to the established traditions of Clue. Nevertheless, this is all just opinion. There's no rule that says anyone has to adhere to a specific standard when creating their own vision of the game. In fact it is the different interpretations permitted by the broadly defined artwork that gives Clue much of its charm and popularity. But, I think the effort to create backgrounds for the games in the mid-90s eliminated some of the fun and imagination that players brought to the game themselves, inspired only by the classic artwork. While such established fiction can be fun, it is sort of a catch 22 as it becomes limiting in its defined details, though a boon for the insipid spoonfed player.
Last edited by Murder by Death on Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.